frequent tuning - floating pitch? was tuning

[Avery]

Falconwood

At 12:28 PM 1/29/2006, you wrote:
>Well I appreciate having the charge of being unethical withdrawn. ;-)
>
>On the subject of pins loosening with frequent tuning. I think the problem
>is poor wood selection in the pinblock. Some pinblocks stand up very well to
>repeated tunings. Others do not. I've noticed for example that Story and
>Clark studio pianos seem to quickly turn to mush. Repinning with oversize
>will work for about 5-8 years then they start getting loose again. Now I use
>CA glue which seems to work better.
>
>Extremely hard blocks also seem to not hold up well to frequent tunings.
>When the wood is so hard the pin cannot be fitted with as much interference
>as with on a softer block. Less interference (i.e., larger hole
>drilled)means there is less tolerance for variation of hole sizes in
>drilling, and less tolerance of variations of tuning pin sizes. This adds up
>to less tolerance for wearing of the wood with frequent tunings. Just my
>intuitive analysis.

I'm starting to notice this with one or our 3 D's that have been 
rebuilt using a
Falconwood pinblock. I now have several pins on one of them that are getting
very loose/jumpy, whatever. Primarily in the bass. But it shouldn't 
be happening
after only 10+ yrs.! IMO. The humidity doesn't vary all that much but they are
tuned (or at least touched up) several times a week. Usually!

Avery

>I've done experiments with cabinet makers plywood, very strong and lots of
>laminations. But it is entirely unsuitable for a pin block. Just a few turns
>of a tuning pin and the torque quickly evaporates. Anyway it just affirmed
>to me that the quality of the block is critical for frequent tuning. Others
>on the list are eminently more qualified than I to judge what varieties and
>grain selections constitute a quality and long wearing block.
>
>Dean
>Dean May             cell 812.239.3359
>PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272
>Terre Haute IN  47802
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
>Of timothy ehlen
>Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:33 PM
>To: Pianotech List
>Subject: RE: frequent tuning - floating pitch? was tuning
>
>Interesting ideas that I hadn't considered.  Although I have
>not encountered this kind of difficulty with pitch
>fluctuation on my own pianos, both new and re-built (despite
>living in Cleveland and now Illinois for quite a few years
>now), I can appreciate the perspective of technicians with
>more experienceand your experience dealing with fluctuating
>climates.  I agree that in cases where pitch tends to
>fluctuate in a problematic way, stability would be a higher
>priority than tuning to A440.
>
>I've never really considered this, however...I always
>thought a piano was "in tune" if it was at 440 and the
>notion of "pitch correction" seems to be another way of
>saying "tuning."  (I tend to think of the "pitch raise" as
>the result of years of failing to have the piano tuned, in
>which case an extra charge seems reasonable.  I know I won't
>get much support for this notion on this list though:)
>
>I would assume that pianos naturally fall a bit flat over
>time, but if they are really swinging this far sharp during
>the summers, then that's another matter altogether, I
>suppose.  Based on your responses, I would modify my
>previous view that it is not ethical to leave a piano at
>anything other than A440, although I still hope this is the
>norm in most cases.
>
>About my suggestion of pinblock wear, this was the only
>possible problem that I could think of with very frequent
>tunings, based on the loosness of some pins on concert
>grands that I've encountered, including my own CD.  I would
>assume that a re-stringing would need to be done earlier on
>these instruments that have regularly been tuned weekly or
>even daily, comparing with the normal grand that gets 2-4
>tunings per year.
>
>Tim
>
>
>
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