Question About Setting Octaves in the High Treble

[Jason Kanter]

You want 2:1, 3:1 and 4:1 all to sound good. So for the top octave, you can
play all three of these notes in the left hand, shortly followed by the note
you are tuning, and find the sweet spot. That is: for tuning C7, you would
play C5-F5-C6 and then add C7 on top - and listen.

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Jason Kanter . jkanter at rollingball.com
Piano tuning, regulation, repair
Serving Seattle and the San Juans
425.830.1561  


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From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Alan Barnard
Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 5:18 PM
To: Pianotech List
Subject: RE: Question About Setting Octaves in the High Treble


As you approach the last octaves, you can listen to 5ths (4ths, too, if you
want) and to the 4:1 double octave directly. Example of one technique:
Tuning C7 you can hold down C5 silently and play C7 a little forcefully,
listening for zero beats at the C7 fundamental.
 
In the last octave, 2:1 often works best. The 10th-17th would be the test
... if you could hear it, which, as you say, you can't. So play or ghost the
lower note of the octave and listen for zero beats at the pitch of the top
note. You may not actually "hear" beats but there is a "sweet spot" that you
can learn to hear. All of this, of course, assuming that the top octaves
aren't junky with false beats, no clear fundamental (you'd need Tunelab or a
spectrum analyzer to see, visually, what this looks like--multiple spikes
instead of one, clear 1st partial), excessive hammer noise, etc.
 
Many times, plucking the string with a fingernail makes it easier to hear
than striking it with the hammer.
 
Though you say you have trouble hearing 17ths, don't give up on practicing
to hear them you will get better at it. For one thing, at high bps you
really can't "hear the beat rate" as you put it, but you can perceive faster
and slower--almost like you are "feeling" the beats. So don't neglect  your
fast-beating tests, i.e., running 17ths.
 
When I was first learning, I thought the bass was easy but that I would
never "get" the treble. Now, I can fairly breeze through the treble but
often fuss with the bass, especially in clunkers. Go figure.
 
It'll come, it'll come ...
 
 
Alan Barnard
Salem, Missouri
 
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Robert Finley <mailto:rfinley at rcn.com>  
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: 05/04/2006 6:51:59 PM 
Subject: Question About Setting Octaves in the High Treble


I am learning to tune the piano by ear and have a question about tuning
octaves in the high treble and performing the tests on them. Lower down the
piano and for an octave or two above the temperament octave I use a 3rd-10th
test to check whether the beat rate of the 10th is the same as or slightly
faster than the 3rd, to provide an octave that is correctly stretched. When
I go higher in pitch I use a 3rd-17th test so that I can still hear the
beats and do the comparison. The problem I am having is that when I go still
higher, say in the final octave, I can hear the beats of the third but I
can't hear the beats of the 17th, or any ripple at all. I can't therefore
compare the two beats rates and check the octave. The higher note also dies
away quicker so it makes it even more difficult. Is there any special
technique I should use to be able to hear the beat rate of the 17th so that
I can check the higher octaves? Thank you very much! for your help. 
 
Robert Finley

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