old Broadwoods

[Stéphane Collin]

Hello Anne.

Nice reading your posts, as I also am a fan of older instruments.
Reading you latest post, I had the feeling that you think that tuning to 440 
a piano supposed to be designed to be tuned to 415 or so could destroy it's 
pinblock or other structural piece.
Curiously, playing what if with a scaling spreadsheet teached me that the 
difference in overall tension is not at all that huge when changing tuning 
from 415 to 440 or even 455.  A pinblock that fails at 440 would anyway fail 
at 415, like all french pinblocks do, because of underengineering.  Same if 
you change string material.  Tensions change in a proportion that is, 
methink, not at all relevant when analysing pinblock failure causes.

What do you think ?

Greetings.

Stéphane Collin.





----- Original Message ----- 
From: <a.acker at comcast.net>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:28 AM
Subject: old Broadwoods


> O.K.   Now I really do need to step in before too much conjecturing and 
> misinformation continue to breed:
>
> Using a terminology with which you are unfamiliar does not necessarily 
> condemn either people or a piano.   It is critical to recognize that pitch 
> levels varied throughout history, and even varied from country to country 
> during the same time period.   Heavens, pitch levels varied from town to 
> town if you go back far enough.
>
> So, "military pitch" simply means not A440, and probably A415 or A430, 
> most likely the latter, which WAS the pitch standard in many countries for 
> many years.
>
> As a tuner of an antique instrument, your job is not to pull the 
> instrument to A440 unless that is appropriate.  Your job is to ascertain 
> what is the correct pitch for that individual instrument, and tune it to 
> that.   I was witness to the absolute destruction of a piano signed by 
> Paderewski because the college tuner kept pulling it up to A440, over and 
> over again.   French pitch was significantly lower up until the 20th 
> century.    The pinblock looked like the grand canyon.   Is it any wonder 
> French pianos have undeservedly received a bad reputation for poor 
> pinblocks?    Modern techs keep trying to get them to hold A440.
>
> It is important for the owner to determine the pitch level established by 
> the restorer before tuning it.
>
> Now, the fact that a Broadwood expert may have been required to redo a 
> piano is NORMAL, as 99% of piano technicians and restorers are only 
> familiar with modern piano actions or close cousins, which would mean they 
> did not know what to do with a Broadwood action.   I get a lot of business 
> undoing the work of prior restorers.
>
> So, please, judge not ........
>
> I would suggest finding out what the pitch level should be, and tuning the 
> piano.
>
> Where is this piano?  What year is it?  Early Broadwoods are fantastic 
> when done properly.
>
> Anne
>
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>
>
>
>
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>
> From: KeyKat88 at aol.com [ Save Address ]
> Reply-to: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Miltary pitch and other "Broadwood" expert
> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 16:10:33 EDT
> Greetings,
>
> I think the lady was sold a "bull of goods" by her rebuilder or whatever 
> he was. I think military pitch was part of that bull, sort of implying 
> that this tuning wont go out of tune so fast, as if it was a "heavy duty", 
> official or "industrial strength" tuning or something. Then again, perhaps 
> Glenn Miller had a preferred temperament put on his orchestra's piano and 
> so it was nicknamned military pitch.. sort of like a local thing. .That 
> would be the only logical guess I can come up with about "military pitch".
>
> I think Diane is right. I think this customer may make trouble, especially 
> if she's been taken by the "Broadwood expert"; very good advice and red 
> flag stuff.
>
> Julia
> Reading. PA
>