More general glue questions was Glue for cracked rib?

[ed440 at mindspring.com]

Cyano-epoxy aka Tech-Bond.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Avery <avery1 at houston.rr.com>
>Sent: Oct 31, 2006 4:00 PM
>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Subject: Re: More general glue questions was Glue for cracked rib?
>
>I guess I'm showing my "ignorance" here but what is
>CE stuff? Not CA?
>
>Avery
>
>At 11:25 AM 10/31/2006, you wrote:
>>Because this rib will be put under stress again, and
>>the split is NOT on an old glue joint, I'm intending
>>to use the CE stuff that Coleman sells. I don't
>>consider hide glue, hot or cold, of adequate strength
>>for this application.
>>      Thump
>>
>>P.S. Coleman said he "uses it all the time" for
>>applications such as this.
>>
>>--- ed440 at mindspring.com wrote:
>>
>> > Alan-
>> >
>> > Depends on just what you mean by "here."
>> >
>> > For a buzzing rib in a dying piano with no rebuild
>> > value in a school struggling to recover from
>> > Katrina, I would use whatever would work fast and
>> > easy. (Probably CE, and I might press the rib up
>> > with a wedge or stick to the floor or just my hand
>> > for the minute it takes the glue to bond.
>> >
>> > For repair, rebuilding or restoration of a preWWII
>> > instrument, working in my shop, I would probably use
>> > cold hide glue.  (First I would test glue some scrap
>> > wood over night to make sure my glue was still
>> > good.)  A failed hide glue joint usually has glue
>> > dust or flakes. You can't fully clean it without
>> > disassembling the joint.  Cold hide glue is fairly
>> > thin, easy to inject and will dissolve the glue
>> > dust.  It gives you plenty clamping time and can be
>> > reversed later with water and heat.
>> >
>> > To use Titebond you need to get the joint cleaned,
>> > it is a bit thicker than cold hide glue and harder
>> > to reverse, should that be desired, and you've got
>> > to clamp faster.
>> >
>> > On a Kimball Classic with a soundboard coming loose
>> > along the spine, I used Titebond and quickly clamped
>> > with a strip of quarter round and drywall screws.
>> > This job was done on site.
>> >
>> > On a rare 19th century piano I'd consider refering
>> > the job to a conservator trained to deal with
>> > historic instruments or at least getting
>> > specialist's advice on what to do (or not do).
>> >
>> > I would not use the peanut butter stuff.  For gaps I
>> > like polyfiber in epoxy. For cosmetic reconstruction
>> > try Wood Rebuilder.
>> >
>> > Just my opinions.
>> >
>> > Ed Sutton
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > >From: "Alan R. Barnard" <tune4u at earthlink.net>
>> > >Sent: Oct 30, 2006 3:42 PM
>> > >To: pianotech at ptg.org
>> > >Subject: More general glue questions was Glue for
>> > cracked rib?
>> > >
>> > >----- This is a forwarded message
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > >From: "Alan R. Barnard" <tune4u at earthlink.net>
>> > >To: ed440 at mindspring.com, pianotech at ptg.org
>> > >Received: 10/30/2006 12:35:29 PM
>> > >Subject: More general glue questions was Glue for
>> > cracked rib?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >Are there reasons for not using yellow glue, here?
>> > (Titebond, Carpenters, etc.)
>> > >
>> > >And while I'm asking questions out of ignorance:
>> > When you need to fill a gap, what about using panel
>> > adhesive--the stuff that looks like peanut butter?
>> > >
>> > >Alan Barnard
>> > >Salem, MO
>> > >Joshua 24:15
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >----- Original message
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > >From: ed440 at mindspring.com
>> > >To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
>> > >Received: 10/30/2006 12:19:53 PM
>> > >Subject: Re: Glue for cracked rib?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>Gordon-
>> > >
>> > >>When you say "cracked" I'm assuming you mean
>> > "separated," not "split."
>> > >
>> > >>Cold hide glue is usually the restorer's choice in
>> > a situation like this. It will soften and
>> > >>combine with any hide glue that is in the joint.
>> > Hide glue is not gap-filling.  (I just
>> > >>came from a great talk by Eugene Thorndahl, who
>> > has spent 50 years as a hide glue
>> > >>chemist. He said the gap-filling properties of
>> > hide glue are an Internet myth.
>> > >><www.bjorn.net>  He may be the only source of
>> > genuine graded hide glues for
>> > >>instrument and restoration work.)
>> > >
>> > >>For a fast repair, consider CE (Cyano-epoxy aka
>> > Tech-Bond).  It has the shear and
>> > >>shock resistance that CA sadly lacks, and sets a
>> > bit slower.  Jim Coleman, Jr. and a
>> > >>few other specialty distributors sell it.
>> > >
>> > >>In either case you may want to drill a hole for
>> > access to the joint and inject the glue
>> > >>right into the center of the problem.
>> > >
>> > >>Ed Sutton
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
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