Whadayathink of this piano sound?

[Gary Fluke]

David,

Thanks for your explanation.  I, too, have a Philips CDR 765, but without 
the mic jack on the front panel.  I get around the hassle of having to go 
way out of my way to buy the compatible, and expensive, "Consumer" CD-R's 
that cost an additional $1.00 in "royalties".  I just record on the CDR765 
with the RW discs and then make a 20-cent CD-R copy of that on my PC's disc 
writer.  So, what I do is an example of what you said about there being many 
ways to go about making a recording these days.  Oh yeah, then I have a tiny 
handheld digital voice recorder.  I have to come out of the earphone jack 
into the line input of my PC (not a great impedance match but it works) to 
make a permanent file of anything recorded with that.  Oh well, it is all 
still way better than the old Sony open reel tape decks we had as kids.  If 
you haven't listened to a Sony 250 or 350 or the like for awhile, the sound 
quality may amaze you.  It is atrocious in every way!

By the way, my CDR 765 is not the best player I've had as it sometimes is 
unstable when it comes to tracking.  Recording with it, though, has been 
entirely trouble free.  How has yours been?

It is good to know that there is one less audiophool than I thought there 
was yesterday.  Thanks again.


Gary

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Boyce" <David at piano.plus.com>
To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:05 AM
Subject: Re: Whadayathink of this piano sound?


> Gary,
>
> Sorry, I didn't express myself properly.
>
> In fact I am "pro" digital recording.  I totally agree with all your 
> comments regarding wow & flutter, and the challenge of recording piano 
> sound.
>
> I have an interesting HiFi CD audio recorder. It's a Philips CDR785, which 
> I don't think they made many of.  Ths unique thing about it is that it has 
> a quarter-inch tereo jack socket on the front to take a stereo mic (or two 
> mics via an adaptor) and you can record from an acoustical audio source 
> straight onto CD.  On subsequent models they removed that feature.  I've 
> used it to record a piano and song recital and it worked very well.  It's 
> not, of course, really intended for portable use.
>
> What I was getting at, really, was the *universality of access* of 
> cassette tape in former times.  I had in mind a musical couple locally, 
> she a singer and he an accompanist and organist. They had a JVC "ghetto 
> blaster" type machine for years, which made decent stereo recordings from 
> its built-in mics.  They could record an accompaniment for a choir member 
> and hand over the casette, very easily played on any other machine.  And 
> they always recorded their own recitals.  For myself, for years I carried 
> around a Philips D6920 Audio-Visual stereo cassette recorder and two mics, 
> and made some nice recordings at various events.  The next model up was 
> the Sony Professional Walkman, too expensive for me.
>
> Well, three or four years ago, my friends' JVC packed in, and the belts on 
> my Philips started to get slack.   At that time - and I know things are 
> changing now - it was difficult to find any ready replacement to do the 
> things my friends wanted to do - easily make recordings they could hand 
> over, etc.  Nor would personnel in audio stores be of much help, for it's 
> rather a "niche market", making stereo audio recordings from live sources 
> on the move.
>
> I accept that in the intervening time, things have moved on. MP3 players 
> are now ubiquitous, and many offer a facility to  record.  In most cases, 
> however, the use of a PC will be involved at some point, if you want to, 
> for example, make a copy of an accomplaniment to hand over to a choir 
> member.
>
> Nor do manufacturers seem to want to make it easy to record in stereo from 
> accoustical sources - it's not what the industry is about - they want you 
> to buy packaged commercially produced music, not make and record your own!
>
> So, I think what I meant was, things are not QUITE "there yet", in terms 
> of going into a store and saying "I want to make a recording of the church 
> choir this week and give copies to some members to let them listen. Sell 
> me a device to do that, my old cassette machine is bust".  I think a lots 
> of store personnel would struggle.
>
> I am certainly not one of those, by the way, who say that vinyl is better 
> than CD!
>
> Best,
>
> David.
>
>
>
> David,
>
> '"...but things are not quite "there" yet..."  Are you serious?  Digital
> recording is fantastic.  Easy to use portable digital recorders are 
> readily
> available.  No previous method of recording can compare with digital
> regarding.  Digital recording devastates all the previous methods 
> regarding
> fidelity, including wow and flutter, harmonic distortion, noise and 
> dynamic
> range, not to mention the economy of storage mediums, random access
> capability, ability to edit and modify sound, etc.  Of course, the piano 
> has
> historically been one of the best instruments to record as a test of a
> recording medium as it has a huge dynamic range and especially the fact 
> that
> wow and flutter is very noticeable when recording piano.  A piano's sound 
> is
> dead solid when it comes to sustaining a uniform pitch as notes decay, so
> any wow or flutter is noticed.  This is unlike woodwinds and bowed
> instruments.  There is virtually no wow and flutter with the digital 
> medium.
>
> Interestingly enough, George Martin has said that those who don't like 
> what
> they sound like when recorded digitally and want to use analog tape 
> instead,
> need to address what it is about their sound that needs to be "fixed" by 
> the
> distortion of analog tape.
>
>
> Gary Fluke
> Snohomish, WA
>
>