Ebony finish

[Farrell]

Hi Sarah,

> Extrapolating fromm this experience, but never having
> done this on wood, I would imagine trying coarse fill (craters) with
> 404-thickened 105/206 epoxy, finer fill (deep scratches) with 406/105/206,
> and a final skim coat (grain and small pits) with 410/105/206, with lots 
> of
> sanding before, between, and after, perhaps with a final brush coating of
> unthickened 105/206, sanded afterwards.

Nothing wrong with starting with the #404, but make sure that you keep it 
below the final surface of the wood - it's a bear to sand. Paint repair 
areas with a light coat of unthickened epoxy and then maybe fill the deepest 
gouges with the #404-thickened. I'd go right to the microbaloons next. No 
reason not to. It sands so nicely - you can really do a great job fairing 
the case with it.

> My questions:  How does epoxy-based fill (such as I suggest) compare to
> Bondo, with regard to adhesion, workability, and durability?

IMHO, don't even think twice about it. Leave the Bondo alone and work with 
the epoxy. Superior adhesion, durability, etc.

> I know that
> on cars, Bondo can eventually shrink and crack.  Can this also happen in
> protected interior environments?

Yes.

> Also, how well do these products expand
> and contract with the wood?

Well, I don't think even the epoxy shrinks and swells much, but the adhesion 
is way superior, so at least it won't crack and fall out.

> Does shrinkage eventually reveal underlying
> defects with either of these materials?

Sure can.

> Should I go through the trouble of
> patching missing bits of veneer, or just skim over them with filler? 
> (Will
> the patches eventually show?)

I'm sure some purists will suggest patching with veneer first. But if you 
are going black with the finish, then fill with epoxy. The only time you 
might see the epoxy fill is if you have the piano out on the back porch and 
in the morning the piano temp is below the dew point and moisure forms on 
the case - you will likely see water on the epoxy repairs before areas of 
just wood. But then, would you really do that anyhow?  ;-)  No, repair with 
epoxy, and then like you stated, coat the entire case with unthickened 
epoxy.

But don't forget to put that new belly in before you 
refinish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terry Farrell



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <sarah at graphic-fusion.com>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: Ebony finish


> Hi Mike,
>
> Since I'm above radar at the moment, this particular thread interests me.
> That's because I have a mahogany piano that I'll be ebony-refinishing
> sometime in the indefinite future in my abundant spare time.  The reason
> for ebony?  It's a great piano, but it looks as though it looks like it 
> had
> been dragged from a bomb crater.  (Well, not that bad, but you get the
> idea.  Let's just say it's beyond simple refinishing, even with steam,
> veneer patching, etc.)
>
> So I see your reference to your colleague using Bondo for fill and another
> post referring to polyester fill (which I assume means Bondo).  Although
> I've used Bondo before, I've used West System epoxy for a much broader
> variety of jobs, and I've gotten very practiced at working with it for
> repairing boats.  Extrapolating fromm this experience, but never having
> done this on wood, I would imagine trying coarse fill (craters) with
> 404-thickened 105/206 epoxy, finer fill (deep scratches) with 406/105/206,
> and a final skim coat (grain and small pits) with 410/105/206, with lots 
> of
> sanding before, between, and after, perhaps with a final brush coating of
> unthickened 105/206, sanded afterwards.
>
> My questions:  How does epoxy-based fill (such as I suggest) compare to
> Bondo, with regard to adhesion, workability, and durability?  I know that
> on cars, Bondo can eventually shrink and crack.  Can this also happen in
> protected interior environments?  Also, how well do these products expand
> and contract with the wood?  Does shrinkage eventually reveal underlying
> defects with either of these materials?  Should I go through the trouble 
> of
> patching missing bits of veneer, or just skim over them with filler? 
> (Will
> the patches eventually show?)
>
> ... not that I'm going to do any of this stuff tomorrow or even next 
> month,
> but since the subject came up...  ;-)
>
> Thanks for your advice! :-)
>
> Peace,
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Michael Magness IFixPianos at yahoo.com
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 19:18:39 -0600
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: Ebony finish
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2007 11:50 AM, Gary Fluke <gary.fluke at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>  I have a Mason and Hamlin console from 1957.  The walnut finish could
>> stand to be done over again.  These pianos were also available in an 
>> ebony
>> finish when new.  How would one apply an ebony finish to my piano?
>>
>>
>> Gary Fluke
>> Snohomish, WA
>>
>
> Walnut is a nice looking wood even by todays standards, when refinished
> right. The work it would take to re-do it in ebony would certainly be as
> much if not more as redoing it in it's "original" color. Everyone isn't
> looking for Oak or Cherry there are those who still believe that classic
> woods like walnut, pecan, even black walnut and other less used woods 
> today
> are still classics.
>
> A friend who used to, every so often, get a blonde beater from a school or
> church, would redo them in ebony simply because no one wanted blonde 
> pianos.
> Stripping a blonde piano to the point where it will accept a decent stain 
> is
> usually more trouble than it is worth because they have so much filler in
> them. He would use bondo to fill the nicks and gouges, coat it with a 
> primer
> then several coats of black lacquer and 3 or 4 coats of clearcoat.
>
> Mike
> -- 
> The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.
> Michael Magness
> Magness Piano Service
> 608-786-4404
> www.IFixPianos.com
> email mike at ifixpianos.com
>
>
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