Hi all,
I'm going to put one last perspective in here (I've been away and am only
just catching up with pianotech). It's been a great thread and I've really
enjoyed following it.
I'm not convinced the end is nigh - otherwise I'd be out somewhere else -
retraining!!
My ex-wife was a school music teacher and had a class each 10 week term
which was a 'taster' for 12-13 year olds who hadn't ever played piano or
keyboard. The resource available to her was a class set of 15 keyboards with
headphones (often referred to by our local sales guys as 'Wally Boxes') and
a Young Chang U131 upright.
She related the following to me - which happened to some degree every time
the class was run.
For the first five or so weeks, all the arguments in the class were over who
wanted to play which keyboard. They wanted to hear all the whiz bang noises
each keyboard made. Once that was done with, towards the end of the term,
they were usually fighting over the piano - it was the only thing that
offered them any challenge, and my ex also thought that they were connecting
with the true 'nature' of the instrument - ie that they were producing the
sound, they were physically connected with the keys that were connected
eventually to the hammer that actually struck the string that made the sound
- naturally!!
They were getting off on the kinaesthetic possibilities.
This concept continues for anyone who studies the piano - and I know I've
had that wondrous experience of sitting at a beautifully prepared piano and
playing like never before, purely because it was offering me - at an
unconscious level - so many possibilities to explore. This can never happen
on an electronic piano - all they offer is a variety of recorded notes to
play back.
The human ear craves diversity and subtlety. The keyboard is just a Xerox
and will never be able to give that to a sufficient degree. Sure, the really
expensive ones come close, but there's still not that organic connection.
Yamaha came really close with the GT2 which had a C series action without
hammers or strings, it had very clever sensing technology and a massive
piano sample - but the end cost blew them out - especially when you consider
the short life span of these appliances.
David Lawson hit the nail on the head, concert artists don't play them (much
- certainly not in public). The few that I have met that use digitals use
them for note learning or composition. Another voice (sorry - I can't
remember whose) observed that they didn't play theirs for pleasure.
I've found that many customers discussing this with me can see the
rationality of these arguments and go on to purchase 'the real thing'. The
public need education, and when they have the good sense to talk to us about
it, they get another perspective than that offered by the dealer (who
considers little else than profit and low costs - both available from
digitals, harder to get from acoustic pianos).
To return to the point of the thread.
I think digitals have pretty much already replaced the bottom end of the
market - not necessarily a bad thing. The real challenge is for dealers to
follow up their clients to up grade at an appropriate time - hopefully
before the child/student has given it up!
Our challenge is to raise our skill levels to accommodate the higher end of
the piano market - or select our specialist area and work in that. Or to
have a diverse enough range of products/services to earn a living from - but
that's another thread!
Ooops there goes my dime.
Cheers
Mark Bolsius ARPT
Bolsius Piano Services
Email mark at bolsius-pianoservices.com.au
Ph 02 6259 3624
Fax 02 6259 3617
Skype bolsi-piano
Post PO Box 182
Jamison Centre ACT 2614
Australia
_____
From: Leslie Bartlett [mailto:l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Saturday, 6 January 2007 1:10 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: FW: electronics replacing pianos?
Danny was ptg for several years, but living nearly a hundred miles from the
chapter, and now working more in sound and electronics, is no longer active.
but I sent him the thing below, and he offered his reply. His email is
below if you wish to respond to his viewpoints. I'm not smart enough to
know.
les bartlett
_____
From: Danny Moore [mailto:catalinasound at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:21 PM
To: l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net
Subject: RE: electronics replacing pianos?
There are a couple of things that always strike me as peculiar any time this
discussion comes up. First, digital recording and current "high-end"
microphone technology will certainly capture anything and everything that
even the finest piano can produce. Many of the big guys are using 24-bit
depth at 192 KHz sample rate. That's a faithful reproduction of 96,000 hz
and a noise floor greater than -96 db - what's that, the 28th partial of C8?
Our hearing peaks out around 20K if we're young and haven't spent the last
35 years playing in rock bands.
Second, when we say that digital pianos don't sound as good as the real
thing, let's compare apples to apples. We invariably make that comparison
to a S&S B or D, or perhaps a Kawai EX at a price point of over $100,000.
Perhaps they don't even sound as good as a Yamaha C3, but that's still over
$30,000. Let's take that "professional level" Roland RD700SX at $2195 or a
Yamaha CP300 at $2195 and see how they stack up. They sound far better than
a used spinet or even a new Pearl River vertical at the same price. In
fact, they sound considerably better than a Samick SIG57 5' 7" grand at over
$14,000. Let's face it, there are many, many brand new pianos out there,
vertical and grand, that cost $20,000 and more that won't compare in sound
or touch to one of the $2K pro electronic keyboards. (Not to mention that
you can move it from venue to venue and it's still in tune.)
Finally, the most baffling thing to me is, with all the wonderful and very
expensive technology out there, the record (OK, Compact Disc) buying public
out there demands their sound. After spending $3,800 EACH for a coincident
pair of Neumann U87 Ai microphones, they run them through Rupert Neve
equalizers, Manley compressors and every other high-end signal processor
available to compress and change the sound to what the public demands - a
$2,000 electronic keyboard!
I submit to you that the problem is not with digital instruments or poor
recording techniques but with the general public and popular culture. The
masses only know what they know - that is, old spinets in parents' living
rooms and Sunday school classrooms that didn't sound good or play well when
they were purchased in 1955 and haven't been tuned since. Popular culture
doesn't demand the subtleties of a Fazioli, they just want to hear music
that they like, be it classical or country, and record label executives are
happy to give them what they want.
Case in point: Who decided that young, urban black people like rap? The
people who make large bucks off of young urban black people, that's who!
People like what they are fed with no regard for what is "good" or
"tasteful" or "artistic." Or consider this . . . after spending the
zillions of bucks to capture that 6-figure piano on those $3,800 microphones
with the absolute best and most expensive technology available, we take the
impeccably done recording, compress it to MP3 (which literally deletes 80%
of the audio data) and listen to it on an iPod through ear buds!
You're welcome to share my point of view if you think anyone is interested
or you may just hit Delete.
Later,
Danny
-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie Bartlett [mailto:l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net]
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 5:13 PM
To: Danny Moore
Subject: FW: electronics replacing pianos?
_____
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of reggaepass at aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:21 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: electronics replacing pianos?
..and the piano seems to be one of the hardest instruments to faithfully
reproduce through recording, if not the hardest. Any thoughts as to why
that is?
Alan Eder
-----Original Message-----
What they ultimately proved is that no matter how good the recording and
the playback systems,
there is always some extra lows and some extra highs and some extra nuance
that just plain won't record or playback. I think the same holds true for
even the high-end sampled electronic pianos today. They do sound pretty darn
good, but they don't really sound real. And I don't think that they will be
able to reproduce a real enough sound from an electronic device anytime soon
enough for it to effect many of us.
-- Geoff Sykes
-- Assoc. Los Angeles
_____
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