Dave, As a noob who would like to eventually be proficient enough to pick up a fair-condition piano and make it a really-nice-condition piano for purposes of selling it, I'm curious why you say Never NEVER. Is it the amount of work involved getting them saleable? or the nuisance of selling? or other? Thanks! Paul Bruesch Stillwater, MN On 10/22/07, Porritt, David <dporritt at mail.smu.edu> wrote: > > What Conrad said! > > > > Really there are just parts of the "piano business" that I have no > interest in, and I have avoided. I don't refinish, I don't move pianos, I > don't sell them. In my 34 years of doing this I have bought, rebuilt and > sold 2 pianos – a Baldwin E and a Steinway B. Both of them I was able to > get at a price I couldn't pass up. I had the Baldwin so long that when I > finally sold it I said never again. Unfortunately never was only about 25 > years when I came across the B. When that sold I did say Never NEVER and I > think I'll be able to stick with that now. That side of this work just > doesn't interest me. > > > > dp > > > > David M. Porritt, RPT > > dporritt at smu.edu > > > > *From:* pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On > Behalf Of *Dean May > *Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2007 9:00 AM > *To:* 'Pianotech List' > *Subject:* RE: Appraising follow up > > > > For someone who has been in the business a long time I'm struggling with > your comment that appraising is waaay beyond your experience. You don't > really have to be in the business of selling, just be observant. Pay > attention to what pianos are selling for in the store. When you get a > customer that just bought a piano ask them how much they gave for it. Take > note of the piano's style and condition. After awhile you get a feel for 2 > levels of fair market values: store selling prices and private transaction > selling prices. And there is one more price you need to worry about: > replacement value. When writing an appraisal for sale you worry about the > first two. When writing one for insurance you worry about the latter. > > > > And I'd have to say if you've been in the business for awhile and haven't > sold any pianos, you may be missing out on a good additional income stream. > At least once or twice a year I'll come across a piano that has to be moved > out right away. You can often pick up a decent console or spinet in the > $100-$300 range, sometimes free. Clean it up, give it a pitch raise, slap a > one year warranty on it, offer free delivery, and you've got a great $950 - > $1500 starter piano for someone. All that's required is the next time > someone asks, "Do you buy/sell pianos?" you say, "Sure, sometimes, what do > you have/need?" > > > > *Dean* > > Dean May cell 812.239.3359 > > PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272 > > Terre Haute IN 47802 > ------------------------------ > > *From:* pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On > Behalf Of *Porritt, David > *Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2007 7:41 AM > *To:* Pianotech List > *Subject:* RE: Appraising follow up > > > > I've been fascinated with this thread on appraising a piano. I've been in > this business for a long time, have the RPT certificate etc. I do not feel > qualified to appraise a piano since I have stayed as far away from piano > sales as I could. I can look at a piano and tell its good points and bad > points and what it needs to be better. However, how much money it would > bring on the open market is waaaaay beyond my expertise. When someone asks > me how much they should get for their piano I defer to someone who works in > a store where used pianos are bought and sold daily. > > > > dp > > > > David M. Porritt, RPT > > dporritt at smu.edu > > > > *From:* pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On > Behalf Of *paulrevenkojones at aol.com > *Sent:* Sunday, October 21, 2007 10:43 PM > *To:* pianotech at ptg.org > *Subject:* Re: Appraising follow up > > > > Paul, > > I would have thought that this is a technical topic and well worth > discussing on the technical forum. Appraising is a technical activity, not a > political one. If we had more discussion on appraisal, maybe we turn out > better appaisers. > > Paul > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: paul bruesch <paul at bruesch.net> > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Sent: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:35 pm > Subject: Re: Appraising follow up > > Can this PTG politics thread please migrate to the proper forum? Please? > PTG-L. > > On 10/21/07, *paulrevenkojones at aol.com *<paulrevenkojones at aol.com> wrote: > > > > But having that qualification will add to the credibility. > > Willem: > > That's not only the danger but the reality: too many technicians dependent > on the "credibility" of the designation offering wholly uninformed and > unformed opinions about the value of pianos. Every time a technician > suggests, estimates, guesses, opines, or offers an appraisal of value, > he/she has altered the values of all other pianos in the market place, > sometimes subtly, sometimes not. Then also, the uneducated credibility of > the piano-owning public who will be led to expect that the RPT designation > by itself "should" signify capability, experience, and assurance. then also, > the credibility of the legal system which will come to depend on the RPT > designation while the above flaws in the ointment continue to be > perpetuated. If after some rather extended experience in the field, and with > an ear to the market, someone also has RPT status, then I guess that means > something; but for the life of me I don't know what it is. As we kn! ow, > many new RPT's are dangerous to the field piano technology since many of > them mistakenly believe that the designation is the end rather than the > beginning. > > While I certainly applaud those who seek and attain RPT status, its > significance is primarily internal, that we, by social contract in our > association, wish to provably raise the level of our techinical expertise by > taking examinations which, as we all know, at 80% are marginal at best. It > is perfectly conceivable and, indeed, has been done, to create an RPT within > as little as 15 months from a point of total ignorance about piano > technology. The RPT designation does not create an appraiser. Or lend > credibility to the appraisal, except to the credulous. And we as members of > the Piano Technicians Guild need to be extraordinarily circumspect in making > the designation carry too much peripheral force or cachet. It will redound > poorly on us if we do. > > Paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Willem Blees <wimblees at aol.com> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > > Sent: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 8:51 pm > Subject: Re: Appraising follow up > > I'm not suggesting that just being an RPT is enough to be a qualified > appraiser. But having that qualification will add to the credibility. By the > same token, an RPT isn't necessarily qualified to be a concert tuner, but it > certainly goes a long way. Which is one of the reasons many universities > want an RPT to be the tech. > > > > Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT > Piano Tuner/Technician > Honolulu, HI > Author of > The Business of Piano Tuning > available from Potter Press > www.pianotuning.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: paulrevenkojones at aol.com > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Sun, Oct 21 1:15 AM > Subject: Re: Appraising follow up > > Willem: > > With all due respect, the designation of RPT is not sufficient to be an > appraiser except for, perhaps, some technical purpose regarding > qualifications in the eyes of the legal system which may be all you're > saying, but if so, then it in insufficient and non-germane to the issue. > There are many, many young RPTs, whom I just love to death for becoming so, > who are not qualified to appraise because they simply haven't had the > experience in the "market-place", nor of the intricacies of the law and tax > consequences, properly to bring to bear the results of that experience. > Julia herself admits as much, that she's been doing technical work for > several years, but does not claim to be an appraiser. To hold out the carrot > to aspiring RPT's that they will, simply by becoming RPT's, have the > qualification to appraise is nonsense. There are many non-RPT's out there > who have years and years of experience whom I would call on in an instant > before I would call someone to do an appraisal sim! ! ply because they have > the designation after their name and the other doesn't. So, no, not enough > said. > > Paul > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Willem Blees <wimblees at aol.com> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:23 pm > Subject: Appraising follow up > > I just got my October Journal, and read the appraising article. A couple > of weeks ago there was some talk about this, but since the series of > questions appeared on Pianotech before I joined, I didn't get a chance to > add my 2 cents worth. > > > > The only thing I wanted to add, which I mentioned in my Appraisal class at > the convention, has to do with the qualifications of a piano appraiser. The > number one qualification, in opinion, would be an RPT member of the > PTG. There is no other classification in any other profession that comes > close to knowing more about the condition of a piano than an RPT. The IRS, > much less a court of law, has no other standard to measure our ability > against. I'm not saying there aren't other people who can do an appraisal, > but an RPT is the only one with credentials. > > > > 'noug said. > > > > Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT > Piano Tuner/Technician > Honolulu, HI > Author of > The Business of Piano Tuning > available from Potter Press > www.pianotuning.com > ------------------------------ > > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail<http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/index.htm?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000970> > ! > > > ------------------------------ > > Email and AIM finally together. 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