Spinet/Console Definition; was: Appraisal Value

[Michael Magness]

On 10/26/07, David Ilvedson <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> For me, that's a console if it has free standing legs...not that it makes
> a heck of lot of difference...;-]
>
> David Ilvedson, RPT
> Pacifica, CA  94044
>
> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------
> From: "Cliff Lesher" <lesher at dejazzd.com>
> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Received: 10/26/2007 7:38:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Spinet/Console Definition; was: Appraisal Value
>
>
> >How about those 36"-tall pianos with keysticks that, just aft of the
> >balance pin, dive about 3 or 4 inches, their capstaned tail ends
> >providing direct blow to the wippens.  Spinsoles?  Consets?
>
> >Oh, and don't forget the 36" Weavers with the key-end, rocker
> >crowbars.   My name for them:  Out-of-control tail spin..ets.
>
> >To their credit, both types afford convenient action removal, making
> >them more consolesque.
>
> >Cliff Lesher
> >Winfield, PA
> >_______________________________________
> >On Oct 26, 2007, at 9:47 PM, David Ilvedson wrote:
>
> >> Drop action=spinet.
> >> Action on keys/free hanging legs=console
> >> action on keys/legs attached to case at bottom=studio such as U1,
> >> UST-7 and such
> >> Big=Upright
> >>
> >> David Ilvedson, RPT
> >> Pacifica, CA  94044
> >>
> >> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------
> >> From: Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com>
> >> To: "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org>
> >> Received: 10/26/2007 5:15:53 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Spinet/Console Definition; was: Appraisal Value
> >>
> >>
> >>>> If it's tall, with a full-blow action, it's not a spinet.
> >>
> >>> Well, I said "tall (for a spinet)". I'd guess it was close to 40
> >>> inches tall - no shorter
> >>> than that. The music desk was level with the lid.
> >>
> >>> Not trying to split hairs or challenge anyone, but rather
> >>> determine the definition of
> >>> spinet and console. To the best of my knowledge, there are two
> >>> streams of piano
> >>> type definition defining four types of vertical pianos (spinet,
> >>> console, studio upright
> >>> and upright) - the layperson's and the technical definitions. The
> >>> layperson definition
> >>> is based strictly on how tall the piano is. My understanding is
> >>> that the technical
> >>> definition of a spinet is that it has the drop action - whether or
> >>> not it has the
> >>> compressed or full size action does not matter. A console does not
> >>> have the drop
> >>> mechanism, i.e. the action sits on key capstans, but has a
> >>> compressed-size action.
> >>> Then the studio upright has the full action directly on capstans
> >>> and the upright has
> >>> the action either on capstans with riser extensions (think Yamaha
> >>> U1 or U3), or the
> >>> stickers common in the old uprights.
> >>
> >>>> Even if it's
> >>>> console size, but has a drop action, it's a "drop-action  console."
> >>
> >>> Opinions on this? IMHO, if it has a drop action, it is a spinet.
> >>> Or do we use five
> >>> classes on vertical pianos?
> >>
> >>>> If the
> >>>> rear ends of the keys (capstans) extend under the wippens, then
> >>>> it's a
> >>>> console.
> >>
> >>> Well, if it has a compressed action. If it has a full size action,
> >>> it would be a studio
> >>> upright.
> >>
> >>>> Yes, a dealer might ask $2K,
> >>
> >>> Right, which is why I defined "retail value" as what the dealer
> >>> would ask for it....
> >>> Oops, I see I did not define "retail value". I meant to. Well, I
> >>> guess there is another
> >>> question: Does the phrase "retail value" mean what a dealer would
> >>> ask for it? I
> >>> thought that to be the case.
> >>
> >>>> but through the newspaper, between private
> >>>> parties, it might be hard to get more than $1200 - $1500 unless
> >>>> the finish
> >>>> is really like new.
> >>
> >>> Agreed. If even close to that. I see the majority of pianos like
> >>> this go for somewhere
> >>> between $500 and $1K in a private sale.
> >>
> >>>> (Looks always seem to matter more than the quality of
> >>>> the instrument)
> >>
> >>> LOL! Good point. So sad, but oh so true. That's why I told the
> >>> lady that there would
> >>> easily be a $200 difference in the price of the piano if she were
> >>> to be able to remove
> >>> the 39 or so glued-on letters on the middle keys (ABCDEFG).
> >>
> >>
> >>> Terry Farrell
> >>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>    If it's tall, with a full-blow action, it's not a spinet.
> >>>> Even if it's
> >>>> console size, but has a drop action, it's a "drop-action
> >>>> console."  If the
> >>>> rear ends of the keys (capstans) extend under the wippens, then
> >>>> it's a
> >>>> console.
> >>>>    Yes, a dealer might ask $2K, but through the newspaper,
> >>>> between private
> >>>> parties, it might be hard to get more than $1200 - $1500 unless
> >>>> the finish
> >>>> is really like new.  (Looks always seem to matter more than the
> >>>> quality of
> >>>> the instrument)
> >>>>    --David Nereson, RPT
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> I'm looking for a reality check on the retail value of a 1983
> >>>>> Baldwin
> >>>> spinet - midwest USA prices.
> >>>>
> >>>> It is a tall one (for a spinet) with the Baldwin full-blow
> >>>> action. Case is
> >>>> good to very good, and mechanically the piano is in very good
> >>>> condition - I
> >>>> would estimate that it has average to light wear for a piano its
> >>>> age. The
> >>>> regulation is good.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm guessing that a dealer would ask about $2k for such a beast.
> >>>> Yes?
> >>>>
> >>>> Terry Farrell
>

Hi I believe Cliff was referring to what Kimball picturesquely called a
consolette those awful keys that are doweled together for the deep swoop
down under the action.
These days you also have to be on the lookout for the fake studios, Kawai
built some that are about 45-46 inches with the toe block and from outward
appearance look like a studio. When you open them there is this resonator
thing (I guess that's what it's for) above the pinblock that's about 4 or 5
inches tall that gives it the extra height.
I tend to guide my customers away from the continental style pianos, the
ones with no front legs, mostly asian made, they have a shorter key much
like a spinet and if played heavily will need regular key rebushing.
Just like a spinet the bends in the keys are right at the balance rail
putting extra strain on the balance rail bushing and consequently the front
rail bushing as well.
I also make the distinction between compact actions and Schwander type
actions since the consoles with compacts aren't in the same league with the
Schwander type, in my opinion. There are exceptions since Kimball owned
Schwander there are many Kimballs out there with Schwander actions. The only
problem is, it's still a Kimball <g>kind of like putting a set of Renner
hammers on a Lester spinet, it can be done but why would you want to? <grin>

Mike
-- 
Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing
is to not stop questioning.-- Albert Einstein



Michael Magness
Magness Piano Service
608-786-4404
www.IFixPianos.com
email mike at ifixpianos.com
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