Who says E.T. is the best way to solve octave divisions?

[Jason Kanter]

Dean, you can get a much better sense of how these temperaments compare by
looking at the visual representations on my website www.rollingball.com .
Almost every one of the temperaments on your list is there. The W group are
well temperaments; the R and M groups are both meantone, emphasizing some
pure thirds; the Q group is "quasi-equal" -- attempts at equal temperament
before they had figured out how to use the beat rate of the thirds. The P
group is Pythagorean, emphasizing pure fifths. Your W25 is probably Kellner
not Keller -- one of the attempts at deciphering Bach's likely temperament.

Jason


On 10/29/07, Dean May <deanmay at pianorebuilders.com> wrote:
>
>  Okay, Jon Page, Ed Foote and others routinely tune in WT without being
> asked to or telling their customers that is what they are doing. If they
> can, I guess I can as well, though it definitely moves me out of my comfort
> zone. I've experimented enough to satisfy myself that I like the sound. Good
> music is about tension and release. The WT scales seem to accentuate the
> tension/release adding very nice color to the music.
>
>
>
> Frankly, being out of the concert circuit, 99+% of my customers will have
> no notice of the difference. One thing that concerns me is other tuners
> coming behind my work and being critical of the temperament I set, judging
> it against an ET standard, not realizing I have deliberately set a WT.
> Recently a very well respected older tech came behind one of my ET tunings
> of a Steinway L and was very complimentary to the owner. That was important
> to me. If I had set a WT however I doubt that he would have been so kind.
> Anybody have any ideas on how to head this off? I've thought of putting in a
> sticker with some kind of disclaimer stating that it is a WT scale inside
> the piano. I've also considered notifying all the area techs that this is
> what I am currently doing so they'll know. Does anyone else worry about
> this?
>
>
>
> Colman 11 has been recommended by many as a good middle of the road WT.
> Broadwoods Best is another. Below is a list of all the historical
> temperaments offered on my PRCT and Coleman 10 or 11 do not seem to be
> represented. There is a couple of different Broadwood Best and one Broadwood
> usual.  What I have been using is the W24 1885 Ellis tuner #4 Broadwood
> Best. There are so many on this list I really don't have time to go through
> and try them all and compare them. That would take forever. In the meantime
> I have a family to feed.
>
>
>
> What I am hoping is that some of the more experienced WT tuners can tell
> me (and others) what would be good tunings from the list to use, maybe
> ranking them on a scale from mild to more radical and also tell me what ones
> would be best to avoid altogether. Or maybe you can steer me to another
> resource so I can decipher what they are.
>
>
>
> I'm also curious as to what the different letter/number combinations mean.
> The W's perhaps are Well Tempered, the M's maybe meantone?
>
>
>
>
>
> W01 1700 Early 18th Century
>
> W02 1731 Peter Prelleur
>
> W03 1746 William Trans'ur
>
> W04 1768 Theoretical J.-J. Rousseau
>
> W05 1768 Equal Beating J.-J. Rousseau
>
> W06 1700 George Frederick Handel
>
> W07 1781 Francesco Antonio Vallotti
>
> W08 1752 Jean-Le Rond D'Alembert
>
> W09 1785 Equal-beating John Preston
>
> W10 1785 Theoretical John Preston
>
> W11 1799 Vallotti-Young
>
> W12 1799 Representative 18th Century
>
> W13 1771 Johann Philipp Kimberger
>
> W14 1806 Theoretical Charles Stanhope
>
> W15 1806 Equal-beating Chas. Stanhope
>
> W16 1808 Theoretical Prinz
>
> W17 1808 Equal-beating Prinz
>
> W18 1832 Jean Jousse
>
> W19 1840 Tuner's Guide #1
>
> W20 1840 Tuner's Guide #2
>
> W21 1840 Tuner's Guide #3
>
> W22 1885 Representative Victorian Moon
>
> W23 1885 Ellis tuner #2 Broadwood Usual
>
> W24 1885 Ellis tuner #4 Broadwood Best
>
> R01 1523 Pietro Aaron (1/4 syntonic)
>
> R02 1707 Gottfried Keller 1/5 ditonic
>
> R04 1749 Robert Smith (50 tones)
>
> R05 1770 John Holden 1/5 syntonic 1&2
>
> R06 1809 John Marsh (4/15 syntonic)
>
> R07 1808 William Hawkes (1/6 Mercator)
>
> R08 1558 Gioseffo Zarlino 2/7 syntonic
>
> M09 1600 17th Century
>
> M10 1752 Jean-Le Rond D'Alembert
>
> M11 1797 1797 1/5 syntonic comma
>
> M12 1798 William Hawkes
>
> M13 1807 Improved William Hawkes
>
> M14 1818 Alexander Metcalf Fisher
>
> Q01 1887 Mark Wicks
>
> Q02 1811 A. Merrick
>
> Q03 1819 Johann C. G. Graupner
>
> Q04 1829 Viennese (Hummel)
>
> Q05 1832 Jean Jousse
>
> Q06 1840 Tuner's Guide (Marsh Plan)
>
> Q07 1840 Tuner's Guide (Becket Plan)
>
> Q08 1840 Factory Tuners of 1840
>
> Q09 1875 Alexander John Ellis in 1875
>
> Q10 1885 Ellis tuner #5 Broadwood Best
>
> Q11 1885 Alexander John Ellis in 1885
>
> Q12 1906 Howard Willet Pyle
>
> P01 1373 14th Century
>
> P02 1518 Hernricus Grammateus
>
> P03 1808 Anton Bemetzrieder
>
> P04 1843 Augustus De Morgan
>
> P05 1732 Johann George Neidhardt
>
> P06 1858 Neidhardy-Marpurg-De Morgan
>
> P07 1895 Charles E. Moscow
>
> W25 2003 Keller
>
> M15 1998 MayHawk
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> *Dean*
>
> Dean May             cell 812.239.3359
>
> PianoRebuilders.com   812.235.5272
>
> Terre Haute IN  47802
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jon Page
> *Sent:* Monday, October 22, 2007 8:44 AM
> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org
> *Subject:* Who says E.T. is the best way to solve octave divisions?
>
>
>
> Although there is much to be said for playing "period" music on "period"
> instruments, tuned to "period" temperaments, one can legitimately tune a
> modern instrument to an early temperament, and recapture much of the
> composers original intent for his music.
>
>
>
> I've been tuning well temperaments for years, using Coleman 11 as a
> default
>
> unless specifically requested. One piano teacher (Julliard grad.) says
> that she
>
> doesn't have to try to inject expression into the music because it was
> written in.
>
>
>
> At a concert yesterday the pianist didn't notice non-ET only that the
> piano sounded great,
>
> plus it had drifted up to 443 from 441 in August (evenly I might add).
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Page
>



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         jason's cell 425 830 1561
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