The other person in that contest with Jim Coleman was Virgil Smith, RPT, I think which happened in the late 70's or early 80's. David Cuffel Anchorage, Ak.From: pianotech-request at ptg.orgSubject: pianotech Digest, Vol 2, Issue 157To: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:35:43 -0800Send pianotech mailing list submissions to pianotech at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech_ptg.orgor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pianotech-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at pianotech-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..."--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: davidlovepianos at comcast.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:02:41 -0800Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fw: Emailing: balance hole repair That works too. One thing I wonder is what is the optimumthickness for the insert at the balance point? David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org[mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jack HouwelingSent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 6:22 PMTo: Pianotech ListSubject: [pianotech] Fw: Emailing: balance hole repair HiRyan, Ijust did a set and it did not cost me anything except for the time in my shop.I did it the Spurlock way. Iused what I had in my shop, a piece of metal for the jig with a couple ofcentre pins soldered in for markers andsome maple for inserts. Jack --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: bobdavis88 at aol.comTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 22:12:42 -0500Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fw: Emailing: balance hole repair-----Original Message-----From: Jack Houweling <jackhouweling at dccnet.com>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 6:21 pmSubject: [pianotech] Fw: Emailing: balance hole repair Hi Ryan, I just did a set and it did not cost me anything except for the time in my shop. I did it the Spurlock way. I used what I had in my shop, a piece of metal for the jig with a couple of centre pins soldered in for markers and some maple for inserts. Jack Hi Jack, We've used this method with success, too. We use poplar for the inserts, though, because of the possibility of the hard maple rattling later. The problem that David Love mentioned, alignment at the fronts of the keys, we take care of by clamping the action to the table, then using a piece of 1" angle aluminum with the vertical side toward the keys, moved fore and aft until all the keyfronts will touch it as the keytop lip rests on it. We leave that also clamped in place while we use the marker gauge, putting the marker on the balance pin, then carefully sliding the key down the pin until the front and lip touch the angle aluminum just before the key hits the marker, then press the key onto the marker pins. Of course we want to see the balance pins in a neat line first, if possible.Bob Davis Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations – including songs for the holidays – FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now! --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: tunerryan at yahoo.comTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:18:13 -0800Subject: [pianotech] Onesti Balance hole repair system Ed Sutton wrote: The PTG Journal reprint book "Keys" has an article by Bill Spurlock describing a different repair system you can make for yourself very inexpensively. I've used it successfully.The book also contains articles describing about 50 other kinds of key repairs.Order via ptg.orgEd SuttonI have a copy of that reprint book...somewhere! I'll check it out, Ed! Spurlock usually has a practical approach to these problems!--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: rnossaman at cox.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:38:02 -0600Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fw: Emailing: balance hole repair > That works too. One thing I wonder is what is the optimum thickness for > the insert at the balance point? > > David Love It's worked for me too. The optimum thickness is whatever the balance hole reamer (KCS-1B, Pianotek) would leave if you made it thicker and reamed it.Ron N --Forwarded Message Attachment--From: tunerryan at yahoo.comTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:31:39 -0800Subject: [pianotech] Baldwin Layoffs Another thing that did not bode well for Baldwin was how difficult it was to order parts! I needed a lyre brace and a una chorda lever but they would not let me, as an established technician, order one! I had to go through an "authorized dealer". I surprised to learn that our local Baldwin dealer had not yet become "authorized" so they were having difficulty getting parts too! Not good. Despite the continued decline of the American piano manufactureres, the competant rebuilders seem to be doing very well. In some ways things are going back to how they were 100 years ago, but instead of 100's of manufactures, we have 100's of small rebuilding shops, with the best of them turning out a product that is superior to what many manufactureres are capable of matching. On a side note, I wonder how Charles Walter is doing these days.--Forwarded Message Attachment--From: dlawson at davidlawsonspianos.com.auTo: pianotech at ptg.orgDate: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:35:41 +1100Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal I can't believe all the rot that is going on about which is the better tuning. Who said that the ETD was correct, the computer programmer? Or that the aural tuning is spot on. In my fifty years of tuning, I can only say that when you leave an individual piano and you and your customer are happy with the result, then that is a good tuning. The other factors of course is stability of tuning, voicing and the myriad of other matters that assist in making the piano what it is. If you don't know about these, then you are not a GOOD tuner. Every piano is different, and from where I am coming from as an aural tuner only, I have a bias towards what I do, as do the opposition. If one treats each piano on its merits, then the result must be as good as it can be. Let's face it, this is an IMPERFECT science we are dealing with, and I claim there is not such thing as the perfect tuning, so just do your best. If that is not good enough then deliver the morning paper! Cheers, David Lawson Wangaratta Australia. ----- Original Message ----- From: pcpoulson at sbcglobal.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 2:40 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal My recollection is that Jim Coleman was one of the tuners, and used the ETD. I don't recall the other one. Patrick C. PoulsonRegistered Piano TechnicianPiano Technicians Guild ----- Original Message ----- From: pianolover 88 To: pianotech at ptg.org Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:06 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposal This "test" has been done! I can't remember exactly when or who was invloved, but I do know that they were both well know and respected tuners. The result? Experienced tuners could not tell definitively which was aural and which was etd! Terry PetersonAccurate Piano ServiceUniGeezer.com"Going to the extreme...on just ONE wheel!" Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:58:06 -0600From: dahechler at charter.netTo: pianotech at ptg.orgSubject: [pianotech] Tuning contest proposalSince there are many and heated views of which tuning way is better ....I propose a tuning contest and final report.Rules:- Find an independent person or team to officiate- Provide two identical piano and settings- Two highly respected tuners that are proficient in there respective skills (Aural and ETD)- Tune each piano at A440 - Equal Temperament- One tune aurally- One tune with ETD- Repeat (with the same tuners) for each Brand, Size and Style of pianoResults:- Using an independent way to determine accuracy of the pitch of each note (all 88 notes) (Tuning forks / ETD in "test" mode" / etc)- If ETD is used, the initial one for the tuning can not be used.- Obviously, this rules out the tuning stability (how long the piano stays in tune), hammer technique, etc. (All the human elements that can't be accurately measured)Extra idea:- Repeat contest with each commercial ETD.Eagerly waiting the results,Duaine Send e-mail anywhere. 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