John: Yes I know the M6-M10 test. Thank you. I don't find it very useful because, as you say, the 3:2 5th beats so slow. I do make use of the m3-M3 6:4 5th test when setting the temperament though. I don't see a problem with listening to 6:4 5ths, as long as they are listened to consistently. Interesting that you dislike "those nasty narrow P5s and P19s in the treble." I dislike the busy 4ths when the 5ths are not narrow enough! To each his own. I wish I knew Latin like Don. Then instead of saying "Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat", I would know how to say "It's not the beats, it's the humility." :-) On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 10:34 PM, John Formsma <formsma at gmail.com> wrote: > Jeff, > There are tests to help determine which partials you are hearing. I'm > assuming you probably know them. The most helpful one for me (for the 3:2 > partials) is the M6-M10. Say you're tuning F3-C5. You'd play those two > notes with G#2. And you can also "ghost" it to help the ear focus on the > correct partials. > > I'd have to be at a piano to know whether I listen inadvertently to 6:4 > partials. I know I sometimes hear them if they're prominent, but constant > ear training helps your focus so you can avoid getting off track by tuning > with the 6:4 partials. > > In my tunings, the P5s at the 3:2 level don't get faster in either the bass > or treble. In fact, they hardly beat at all. But I tend toward a pure 5ths > tuning. Not quite, but close. My tunings are somewhat expanded compared to > some, but that helps eliminate those nasty narrow P5s and P19s in the > treble. > > -- > JF > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 11:11 AM, Jeff Deutschle <oaronshoulder at gmail.com>wrote: > >> List: >> >> I have read threads where someone mentions that the beat speed of 5ths >> should decrease in the treble and that 5ths even become wide of just >> intonation. I have been trying to figure out how this could be, both >> theoretically and in practice. >> >> Theoretically, it seems that this could only occur if each octave was >> tuned more than 2 cents wider than the octave below it. In practice, my 5ths >> beat rate increases, not decreases, in the treble. If I try to stretch the >> octaves so that they beat slower, this results in unbearably busy octaves >> and 4ths. >> >> The only thing I can figure out is that the threads are referring to 3:2 >> 5ths and I am listening to 6:4 5ths (which I believe I am). I imagine when >> taking into account inharmonicity that a 4:2 or 6:3 octave could result in >> the 3:2 5ths beating slower going up the treble while the 6:4 5ths beat >> faster. But then what about going down into the bass? Wouldn't the 3:2 5ths >> beat faster going down into the bass? That is hard for me to believe. >> >> So, can anyone one help me to understand this? I feel like there is a >> piece missing in this puzzle. >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Jeff Deutschle >> >> Please address replies to the List. Do not E-mail me privately. Thank You. >> >> > > -- Regards, Jeff Deutschle Please address replies to the List. Do not E-mail me privately. Thank You. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20081106/490b0d39/attachment-0001.html
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