[pianotech] New hammers for Baldwin 7' - Suggestions

Kendall Ross Bean kenbean at pacbell.net
Thu Nov 20 20:51:58 PST 2008


Steven~
 
For what it's worth,
 
I installed a set of Brooks/Abel AE171 "natural" felt hammers recently on a
1968 Baldwin F (7') grand, at the request of a customer who had heard good
things about them and wanted to try them out (I was curious about them too,
having installed, and having been very favorably impressed with the
installations of a number of sets of Wally's other Abel Encore hammers). 
 
The "naturals" turned out to be very wonderful hammers, and needed very
little voicing. Part of this may be to be that the felt seems to me to be,
in both weight and density, somewhere in-between the regular Abel Encores
and the Abel "lites", -which turned out just about perfect for this piano.
(This may have to do with the different treatment; the "natural" felt is
treated with enzymes, rather than acid which is the conventional treatment.
These hammers definitely look more like felt that hasn't been "bleached".)
The 17 lb felt is necessary, I feel, for the larger piano, although Wally
may also have them available in 15 lb felt if you want to try for an even
lighter hammer. We found that, as Wally claims, this natural felt is
amazingly resilient. We are still waiting to see how it wears with this
particular pianist and piano, but apparently others have reported these
hammers have minimal packing and brightening even with heavy use.   With
these hammers you should still plan on tapering/weight- reduction with
something like the Spurlock tapering jig, and a pharmacist's scale, to get
them close to the target touchweight, (but they do tend to be lighter to
begin with, so you won't need to do a lot of tapering.) 
 
The "naturals' come with nice wide shoulders (At least 11 mm wide on the set
I got - if you are into that). 
 
I shot for, after boring, tapering and tailing, around 9 grams for hammer
#1, 8 grams on hammer #21, and 7 grams on hammer #40. This will get you
pretty close to the ideal touchweight (around 50 grams). The Baldwin F I
installed the hammers on had a Renner "Schwander" type action. There wasn't
much lead in the keys. (A max of 3 medium leads in the lowest bass notes,
two leads in the middle, one in the high notes, and in the highest notes,
none. Hammer weight out of the box for the naturals was #1 - 10.8 grams, #21
- 9.7 grams, and #40 - 8.3 grams. I count on the tapering to remove between
1 and 2 grams from each hammer (high treble closer to 1, low bass closer to
2.) I tapered the hammers to 13/32" (10.5mm) at the crown to 5/16" (8mm) at
the tip of the tail.
 
The customer was looking for a more "mellow" sound (more fundamental) but
which still had a certain amount of ring to it (just the right higher
overtones). We were able to get that "almost" right out of the box (of
course, I'm taking for granted all the usual setup: shank heating and
squaring of hammers, crown and string levelling, string seating, alignment
of hammers to strings, etc, etc ;-)  Thus, "out of the box" is a very
relative term... )
 
Other possible hammers: Aside from that, the RennerUSA "Blues" have always
been one of my favorites. Very consistent, very predictable, and very
wonderful as well. After having installed many, many sets, I know just about
exactly what to do with them for any given piano. For the Baldwin 7', with a
treble bore distance of 1 7/8" (nominally) I found I would need to order the
G4M-L's to assure a 1" tail length (or the G3M-Ls if you want a lighter
hammer)   The Renner blues generally require more needling than the Abel
"natural" hammers, but when you get them where you want them, they are truly
rewarding, and also are very long-lasting.
 
Both of these brands of hammers start you out with a superb quality of felt.
>From there, it's what you do with them.
 
~Kendall Ross Bean
PianoFinders

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From: erwinspiano at aol.com [mailto:erwinspiano at aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 4:58 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] Weickert Felt -New Baldwin Hammers



Steven
  Marinelli told me that the Abel Selects from Piano-tek have been
discontinued. I bought the last two sets from him. They were a good choice
for certain soundboard systems. However one set was incredibly bright &
pingy and required  much voicing to get them under control and I am
concerned about the rebounding effect.  From what you say it is MHO this is
not what your client needs.
   I just opened 4 sets of the Ronsen Weickert hammers and subjected them to
some initial testing. I use a no. 6 needle inserted in various areas of the
hammer to test for density,stiffness & resilience.  I  also have a device
some of you have seen called the Erwin -Davis flex-o-meter. Which is a hand
held press which can squeeze/flex the hammer so a visual inspection of
hammer squash/felt movement can be observed. These hammers are strong yet
flexible. This type of strong flexing movement is responible for the
powerful sustain the testers are experiencing. 
  The feel of the needle is firm,But they go all the way in. The trebles are
nicely dense for clear and solid tone production & should produce a powerful
sound with a minimum of needles if any.   
  Ray,Jack & I have been working to produce the felt/hammers so it require
only light to no needling in order to  get the desired result. You Know? The
perfect hammer. lol 
 Ray just recieved 6 more sheets & we Wurzen/Jack has tweaked the bass to
get it where we want it.  Dense.
   The felt smells alive & the feel is like silk. We cut open some hammers &
they demonstate a lot of tension. 
  I've been testing every set here & compiling  data as each testor weighs
in. SO far it's all very enthusiastic.
  The latest is Star Taylor with C-7. He loved it. I'll ask him to post.
Starr?
 I'll have more soon.
  I would recommend the 16 lb for the Big Baldwin. Renner Shanks is a great
choice...of course
  Dale Erwin
  


 I second the hammer selection and definitely Renner Shanks.
 
Al G

From: David Love <mailto:davidlovepianos at comcast.net>  
 
Subject: Re: [pianotech] New Baldwin Hammers

Depends on the tonal goal.  I would opt for either a set of the new Ronsen
Weikert felt hammers or a set of Abel Select (new series) that Pianotek is
selling.  The Abels will be a bit firmer.   Renner for shanks.  Be prepared
to reassess the action leverage.
 
 
 
Hello,  
 
Does anyone have a suggestion for a full set of hammers, shanks, and
knuckles for a Baldwin 7' grand built in 1982.  Baldwin/Gibson gave me some
information for contacts to answer my question but lets just say no one is
calling back.  Thanks for the help.
 
Steven Hopp
PianoWorks Studio
600 Liddon #64
Midland, TX. 79705
hoppsmusic at hotmail.com



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