[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Unstringable C8, was Steinway 78183]]

[Nick Gravagne]

Hello to Les and to the “lady whose top string broke on the Steinway
vertical”:

 

Yes, extending the “bridge” closer to the capo bar is the only possibility
short of more serious and expensive alternatives. This has previously been
suggested on this list by Del F., Ron N., and RicB to name a few. Someone
suggested moving the capo bar closer to the bridge. Ed Sutton asked for
clarification, but none was provided. I can’t imagine this is an option, but
if this model has an adjustable capo then that needs to be looked at, and
please send us photos!

 

Now some clarifications and some questions: this is the first (I think) that
we are learning that the piano has been rebuilt. How extensive was this
rebuild? I am guessing the original soundboard, pinblock and bridges were
retained. If so, chances are good that the plate-to-bridges relationship has
not been changed from the original factory setting. As Del F. pointed out,
though, many speaking length variations (and of the too-long variety) have
been found in pianos like yours.

 

1)       A photo of the situation would be very helpful.

2)       Measurements of the highest five or six notes, but especially of
notes 87 and 88 are critical to our prognosis. For example, if we find out
that note 88 measures about 2” plus or minus a small amount, then the reason
for strings breaking is not about too-long strings or bridge placement. (If
the lengths have been provided in earlier posts, my apologies, I don’t
recall seeing them).

3)       The word “bridge” appears in quotes above because “extending the
bridge” closer to the capo bar describes the procedure too grossly. In many
cases it is the fore-and-aft (or in this case the up-and-down) location of
the notches and pins that need to be relocated. This can usually be done by
recapping a short section (sometimes with an exaggerated overhang) to
include the highest notes only.

4)       This is all easy to say, but from a practical hands-on perspective,
this needs to be done without unstringing the entire piano, removing the
plate, etc., which would be very costly. 

5)       Having said that, completing the job with the plate in place is
tricky. Photos would indicate how much clearance there is to work with.

 

So, given that the string lengths need to be shorted in this area, the real
question to the List is “what is the easiest and least costly way to do
this”? And this is where the List shines brightest. But without photos and
some measurements we don’t have enough information.

 

In broad strokes, however, and to get the ball rolling, my first sense is
that the strings and pins need to be removed in the offending area. Next, a
paper or thin plastic sheet pattern needs to be made of the existing notch
and pin scale. Now comes the trickiest part: the upper portion of the bridge
(including the cap and a portion of the bridge body below it) needs to be
removed such that the left sidewall of the bridge remains as vertical as
possible, while the bottom of same remains as flat as possible.

 

This will require careful work with a small saw and sharp chisels unless it
can be done with an overhead routing system. However this is done, the
resulting cutout might not be perfect but it will provide decent surfaces
for gap-gluing or epoxying in the new wood. If this can be done while the
plate is in place, especially with a small saw and a variety of chisels, the
rest is clear sailing for an experienced bridge worker.

 

As to the replacement “cap”: my suggestion is that the entire piece should
be cut to shape, set for height, notched, drilled and pinned prior to gluing
in. Attempting to accomplish all these tasks with the piece in place will be
tricky at best and perhaps impossible. Do not use the 1” bridge pins --- use
the ¾” pins (probably size 6) or even shorter as available from Shaff. This
will allow for the shortest replacement piece to be used.

 

Well, this is still a good deal of careful work, and should be done by an
experienced bridge worker. The List may provide much simpler and even less
costly procedures. My off-the-hip outline above may be trashed by someone
with a brilliantly simpler solution. Let’s see what happens. 

 

Lastly, and I say this with a grin and sincerity, you might consider doing
nothing and simply accepting the fact that the top two notes must be tuned
flat – kind of like your piano has a bit of arthritis or a bit of a bad
back. I have a door in my house that won’t latch right. I could spend a day
fixing it, or even replacing it, but I live with it and it doesn’t bother
me. But that’s me. The door thing might bother you a lot, as this piano
thing might as well. 

 

Respectively,

 

Nick Gravagne, RPT

Piano Technicians Guild

Member Society Manufacturing Engineers

Voice Mail 928-476-4143

 

  _____  

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Leslie Bartlett
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:02 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Unstringable C8, was Steinway 78183]]

 

This trust issue is a big thing. This from the lady who's top string broke
on the Steinway vertical.  I forwarded all the pianotech posts to these
folks- trust and respect at least sometimes coming from honest admission
that a problem is beyond one's ability, but s/he will do their darndest to
find a solution. Now, I just wish we could find that solution!   Extending
the bridge closer to the capo seems like a reasonable possibility, huh?  It
wouldn't require an entire design of a very old, and mostly nicely rebuilt
piano.
les b


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 


 

 

 

Dear Les,
 
This is Mary writing; Jerry showed me the correspondence you forwarded to
him about key 88 on our Steinway. 
 
Thank you for submitting this problem for consideration by the group, and
for forwarding to us their insights and ideas. Reading these discussions is
fascinating as well as helpful: we get a glimpse of piano workings, and also
see the interest and concern of so many knowledgeable people on this
question.
 
You made an excellent difference in the piano, and we appreciate it.  The
action is noticeably improved, as well as the tuning. I have been playing it
faithfully every day, at least some chromatic scales. You are right; it
definitely responds to use.
 
Thank you for your good work. I am so happy that Carl recommended you.
 
Best regards,
 
Mary Ochoa 
 
 
 
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