David I second this. SO glad you offered up this perspective because it absolutely true. We all want instant sound now. I do, we all do,but in many/most cases it ain't so and clients are not willing to wait for it to happen. The beauty of and the reason for my heavy use of the Ronsen product is because I'm closer to my ideal most of the time. Or another way to say it is I have a predictable medium to work in which I can count on. I practice a tonal voicing protocol called voicing without needles & rarely do I needled the Ronsen hammers until....they are played in. Occasionally I needle the Wurzen AA as it is a very dense felt and If this hammer is juiced DO NOT use a heavy solution of juice as Tom S. stated. In so many case I have simply applied the break in solution to the =very strike point 3 6 drops of really dilute solution. Either plastic or 10 to 1 lacquer. This helps simulate the play in time & if need be later ,it can easily be washed in with acetone or needled out. My SOP on all hammers should be to harden the felt area below the staple area fist and always This provides for a solid foundation by which the top of the hammer can push on aiding play in time. Other wise it's typically soft felt which is unproductive weight along for the ride. Dale Erwin . The forgotten issue is not just how the hammer sounds after the initial voicing but how it20will develop. Many hammers sound ok out of the box but don’t develop well, at least not for a given piano. The idea that a hammer starts underneath the ideal tonal level and develops over the first 100+ hours of playing seems lost in these days of instant everything yet the best and most stable sound that I have encountered comes from just that type of approach. On a concert piano, of course, you don’t have that luxury, but then those pianos are not generally being played on for the same amount of time per week. David Love davidlovepianos at comcast.net www.davidlovepianos.com -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of erwinspiano at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:33 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org; ray at ronsen-hammer.com; Barbk at Brandfelt.com; st.piano at verizon.net Subject: Re: New Weickert felt limited edition piano hammer Hi Terry Terry Sorry you didn't, find it. Hopefully David will jump in here. The advice David Love a year or two back got me to thinking especially in conjunction with our respective journeys into the world of Soundboard design. It was simply this : instead of assuming that Brand A or R or R or S would yield the best results in a piano, simply hang a couple test samples in your rebuild before committing to a particular type or version. By doing this an instant idea can be assessed as to what you will hear and need to d o to build the tone up or take it down or let it just play in. Also using a no 6 needle sample felt densities of the old hammers, especially if the piano yet sounds decent even though the hammers are worn. This can be a massive indicator, I've learned to listen to this ,the piano is talking to me. It's telling me high density is ok. If the piano is screeching at me & the hammers are hard, it's telling me, no, no, not more petrified felt hammers. grin Every belly system is different (as you know) & this is why we voice hammers, which is to make the density requirement of the hammer maximize & match the impedance values of that board. Which is, by the way, why there are no perfect hammers...well, except Rays. grin. However, the closer you call it before the hammer choice is made the less work you will need to do to get your desired tone. If a given belly system is stiff it may ask for a highly densified hammer that can be needled appropriately. If it is very compliant resonate system then simply using a high density hammer by default may not work well & much effort will be expended attempting to blend the voicing of this hammer with that particular system. The same is conversely true. for example I sampled hammers in a 9 ft Grotrian 2 years ago. I found it to be a stigny system & held not much hope. However upon sampling it, it revelaed that it wanted the Abel=2 0performance hammers from Piano- tek. A very dense hammer(an oddly cold pressed cousin) but on this piano it was instant sound and only the 5 th 6 th octaves required needle work of about an hour. It didn't want Renners nor Ronsen or the usual Abels. This was a light bulb moment for me so now I carry a sample bag of various hammers from various makers & all 4 of the felts that Ray uses at Ronsen. Some on shanks, some not so I can pop hammers on or off shanks in the piano and do sampling. I usually do this work in the shop when possible SO keep samples handy that you can temporarily install in the piano before you tear it down or decide on a hammer choice. By in large if a soundboard system is built in a reasonable manner 95% of my tone needs can be met with one of Rays hammer felts. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because a Yamaha or Kawai etc came with high density hammers that this what needs to go back on.. They might, but I've never used high density hammers in them. I do believe there 9 ftrs need them however. Dale Erwin Dale - I have searched the archives for comments by David Love on hammer sampling and wasn't able to find anything. Do you have a link? Would you care to comment on this? David? I'm presently in the process of installing a set of hammers on a Del Fandrich redesigned belly (1890s 6'4" Knabe) and can use all the help I can get - pretty much a new world20to me. Whereas previous hammer installations on other similar projects have been successful, it has always seemed to be a bit of a shot in the dark for me - I'd just kinda hold my breath and see what shook out - I'd sure like to go about the selection/preparation process more methodically. Thanks. Terry Farrell ----- Original Message ----- from: erwinspiano at aol.com SNIP It's still a good idea to practice hammer sampling that David Love has been a proponent of. See archives for details. McCain or Obama? Stay updated on coverage of the Presidential race while you browse - Download Now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/20081015/5df106d2/attachment-0001.html
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