New Weickert felt limited edition piano hammer

[David Love]

That's pretty much it.  I find that sampling around note 40 and notes 60 -
64 are the key areas.  The bass tends to be more forgiving.  It can be
difficult to extrapolate an entire piano from a couple of samples but when
you put a couple of different hammers side by side you can get a sense.
While (another post) one can fool the ear in a single octave by voicing a
number of different hammers to sound the same, there is no question that
different hammers will create a completely different tonal impression when
you hear the entire piano with one or the other.  There is, in my view,
generally a better choice to be made.  One size does not fit all.  For
example, I've put a Premium Blue on a piano that seemed to sample OK and 8
hours worth of voicing later it did sound ok, even very good, but I could
have gotten there a lot easier another route and with probably a more stable
result.  The forgotten issue is not just how the hammer sounds after the
initial voicing but how it will develop.  Many hammers sound ok out of the
box but don't develop well, at least not for a given piano.  The idea that a
hammer starts underneath the ideal tonal level and develops over the first
100+ hours of playing seems lost in these days of instant everything yet the
best and most stable sound that I have encountered comes from just that type
of approach.  On a concert piano, of course, you don't have that luxury, but
then those pianos are not generally being played on for the same amount of
time per week.  

 

David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net
www.davidlovepianos.com 

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of erwinspiano at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 6:33 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org; ray at ronsen-hammer.com; Barbk at Brandfelt.com;
st.piano at verizon.net
Subject: Re: New Weickert felt limited edition piano hammer

 

  Hi Terry
 Terry
  Sorry you didn't, find it. Hopefully David will jump in here.
  
   The advice David Love a year or two back got me to thinking especially in
conjunction with our respective journeys into the world of Soundboard
design.
 It was simply this : instead of assuming that Brand A or R or R or S would
yield the best results in a piano, simply hang a couple test samples in your
rebuild before committing to a particular type or version. By doing this an
instant idea can be assessed as to what you will hear and need to do to
build the tone up or take it down  or let it just play in. 
   Also using a no 6 needle  sample felt densities of the old hammers,
especially if the piano yet sounds decent even though the hammers are worn.
This can be a massive indicator, I've learned to listen to this ,the piano
is talking to me. It's telling me high density is ok.
   If the piano is screeching at me & the hammers are hard, it's telling me,
no, no, not more petrified felt hammers. grin
  Every belly system is different (as you know) & this is why we voice
hammers, which is to make the density requirement of the hammer maximize &
match the impedance values of that board. Which is, by the way, why there
are no perfect hammers...well, except Rays. grin.  However, the closer you
call it before the hammer choice is made the less work you will need to do
to get your desired tone.
   If a given belly system is stiff it may ask for a highly densified hammer
that can be needled appropriately. If it is very compliant resonate system
then simply using a high density hammer by default may not work well & much
effort will be expended attempting to blend the voicing of this hammer with
that particular system. The same is conversely true. for example
    I sampled hammers in a 9 ft Grotrian 2 years ago. I found it to be a
stigny system & held not much hope. However upon sampling it, it revelaed
that  it wanted the Abel performance hammers from Piano- tek. A very dense
hammer(an oddly cold pressed cousin) but on this piano it was instant sound
and only the 5 th 6 th octaves required needle work of about an hour. It
didn't want Renners nor Ronsen or the usual Abels. This was a light bulb
moment for me so now I carry a sample bag of various hammers from various
makers & all 4 of the felts that Ray uses at Ronsen.  Some on shanks, some
not so I can pop hammers on or off shanks in the piano and do sampling. I
usually do this work in the shop when possible
 SO keep samples handy that you can temporarily install in the piano before
you tear it down or decide on a hammer choice. 
  By in large if a soundboard system is built in a reasonable manner  95% of
my tone needs  can be met with one of Rays hammer felts. Don't be fooled
into thinking that just because a Yamaha or Kawai etc came with high density
hammers that this what needs to go back on.. They might, but I've never used
high density hammers in them. I do believe there 9 ftrs need them however.
  Dale Erwin





Dale - I have searched the archives for comments by David Love on hammer
sampling and wasn't able to find anything. Do you have a link? Would you
care to comment on this? David? I'm presently in the process of installing a
set of hammers on a Del Fandrich redesigned belly (1890s 6'4" Knabe) and can
use all the help I can get - pretty much a new world to me. Whereas previous
hammer installations on other similar projects have been successful, it has
always seemed to be a bit of a shot in the dark for me - I'd just kinda hold
my breath and see what shook out - I'd sure like to go about the
selection/preparation process more methodically. Thanks.

 

Terry Farrell

----- Original Message ----- 

from: erwinspiano at aol.com 

SNIP

 It's still a good idea to practice hammer sampling that David Love has been
a proponent of. See archives for details.

 

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