Tom: Thanks so much for your post. One thing that you posted really caught my eye:"Tuners many times are very mechanical in understanding concert pitch. They might know it by watching the ETD light or listening to the fork, but they don't learn to internalized the pitch where it's really apart of their whole being. And that's what good symphony musicians have developed." I was never a top-notch musician, but when I tune, a sense of the piano's pitch is important to me, much like when I did perform and the group's pitch and my own instrument's pitch were important. I had been looking at this as a harmonic tuning vs melodic tuning compromise, but have started looking at it also as a musical tuning compromise. I have been striving for the entire piano to sound like it is tuned to the same pitch; of course there are no objective tests for this. Some are easier than others. Many pianos seem to have a scaling where the bass belongs to one piano and the tenor to another. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:21 AM, Tom Servinsky <tompiano at bellsouth.net> wrote: > Many of you are falling into a very slippery slop thinking that musicians > don't know and feel A440 vs A441, A442. Maybe some don't, but most who play > on the high professional know it and feel it. I'm one of those in the > category. > Many fail to recognize the countless thousands of hours professionals spend > on their instruments ( without any accompaniment) with special attention to > establishing good melodic and accurate pitch. Yes, instruments fluctuate a > great deal through the course of any concert due to temperature and > humidity. But the seasoned pro knows their instruments inside and out and > make adjustments accordingly. Me included. And yes, the general pitch of the > orchestra will float throughout the course of any concert. And yes," Just > Intonation" plays a huge part of relying on the musicians to make > corrections and adjustments on the spur of the moment in order to make any > chordal use as clean as possible. > That being said, wind instruments are pitched specifically to either A440 or > 442. Mouth pieces are itched differently as well. There's usually enough > allowances in the A440 pitch instruments to be able to raise the pitch > slightly, sometimes the 8 cents needed to raise to A442. Brass instruments > have to be able to push their slides in far enough. Woodwinds ( clarinets > and flutes) depend upon enough room to shorten their barrels or headjoints > to make the necessary adjustments, if need be. Me, as a clarinetist, carries > several different barrels of different lengths (64mm, 65mm, 66mm, 67mm, and > 68mm) specifically when situations in conditions presents itself. > But double reed instruments actually make their reeds specifically pitched > to one pitch or another, which makes for an interesting set of > circumstances. They are the least flexible. > Problem arises with instruments like the clarinet is when I do have to raise > to A442. Although I'll be A442 in general, the clarinet itself will be > affected throughout the whole scale making tuning issues within the > instrument itself be out of tune. Yes, the general pitch will be at the high > pitch, but the instrument itself will have tuning anomalies. > As both a concert piano technician and symphony musician I live in both > camps daily. Many times I'm carrying double duty on any given concert, > having to tune the piano, then turn around head back to my seat in the > orchestra. I've been on the receiving end of many of unwanted glares of > orchestra members when the piano has creeped sharp a few cents. Since they > know I had done the tuning, their first reactions are did I intend to tune > sharp. Of course we know temperature and humidity can fluctuate and tuning > with the course of 1/2 before a concert and that's life in the big time. > But my point is that they catch the drift in pitch ( very quickly) and > recognize the slight difference in a split second. > Tuners many times are very mechanical in understanding concert pitch. They > might know it by watching the ETD light or listening to the fork, but they > don't learn to internalized the pitch where it's really apart of their whole > being. And that's what good symphony musicians have developed. You might > think you are pulling the wool over everyone's eyes, but they know it. > Believe me, they know it. > How's the old saying go..."you can fool some of the people some of the time, > but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" > Tom Servinsky > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <david at piano.plus.com> > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 4:39 AM > Subject: Re: [pianotech] CONERT PITCH 440/442 > > >> Ron, thank you for sharing those very interesting anecdotes! >> >> The questions arises then, if you kept the piano at 440, but TOLD >> everyone it was 442, who would notice? >> >> It may be that there is a 'received wisdom' that 442 is the 'correct' >> pitch, and sometimes the orchestras encounter halls where the piano hasn't >> been properly maintained at all, and they think 442 is the correct pitch >> to insist on. >> >> It's all very strange. I bet very few orchestras actually PLAY at 442. >> See the comments in Steve Brady's book, Under The Lid. >> >> >> > > > > -- Regards, Jeff Deutschle Please address replies to the List. Do not E-mail me privately. Thank You.
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