I switched when I found there wasn't really much difference and I didn't have to mess around with glue pots and urea and such. It goes a bit faster because the glue doesn't start to set up as fast and you can do more at each spreading. It's easier to keep the consistency of the glue constant as out of the bottle the cold glue seems to be about right. With hot glue monitoring the consistency is very important: too thin and it soaks through, too thick and it squeezes out the top of the bushing when you insert the caul creating noise against the keypin when it hardens. Otherwise, I don't do much different. I spread it with a hammer shank. After the final caul goes in I like to let it dry overnight if possible but at least for several hours. After I remove the cauls I go through and test each bushing for tightness with a final caul and ease as necessary before putting them back on the keyframe. Hot is fine too, I don't have anything against it. I've just found the cold hide glue to be easier and with no down side. I'm into easier if it yields the same result. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:34 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Balance rail bushings I'm sure your method gets you good results. I haven't ever tried it so I guess I shouldn't be so quick to be down on it. I have a set of keybushing to replace on one of my own pianos. Maybe I'll try half with hot, and half with cold so I can compare. I'll let you know what I think! Since you have used both, what made you switch, and what do you do differently as far as technique? (i.e. how do you spread it on the felt, how long till totally dry, etc). On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 9:30 PM, David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> wrote: Don't use too much. But whatever you're comfortable with. I've not had a problem since switching from hot to cold. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:11 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Balance rail bushings Cold glue is not so good for key bushings IMHO. It stays liquid too long and will definitely soak into the felt more making them harder than they need to be. At least it will be easy to remove in the future, but what other merits does it have? >From Bill Spurlocks website: Controllable penetration: Hot hide glue gels quickly, so it won't penetrate too far into porous materials like felt and harden it excessively. Actually, hot hide glue has a two stage curing process. First, it turns from a liquid to a gelatin as soon as it cools slightly. Then over a longer period of time, it turns hard and rigid as the water content leaves the glue. Hot hide glue is the appropriate stuff. It takes some getting used to but is well worth the effort. On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks at att.net> wrote: You guys are being a great help, thank you. TODD PIANO WORKS Matthew Todd, Piano Technician (979) 248-9578 http://www.toddpianoworks.com <http://www.toddpianoworks.com/> --- On Sun, 7/12/09, David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> wrote: From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Balance rail bushings To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 1:22 AM Hot or cold hide glue work fine. Spurlock's cauls are the best. Over time you should plan on getting the entire set of sizes. You don't need steam to get the old ones out. Just soak them with cold water mixed with a bit of wall paper remover or anything else that will help break the surface tension to get the water into the old cloth. Overnight is unnecessary. Just let it stand for awhile (go do something else) and the pull them out. Use a dropper (6 oz with a medium needle works well) and lay the end of a pipe cleaner over the center of the mortise to help disperse the liquid to the bushings without it running down into the mortise. As far as "ears" go, remember that the old bushings had "ears" but they were wrapped underneath the key buttons. Since you can't duplicate that fold underneath, do it on top. I think it increases the life expectancy. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Sowers Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:38 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] Balance rail bushings Matthew, One thing I discovered when I started replacing keybushings back in the 90's, was that it was easy to have them come out too loose. I like a firm balance rail bushing with only a few thousands of play. If you use standard 146 cauls and leave them in to dry, your balance rail bushings will be too loose. Nobody ever told me this when I was starting out! Bill Spurlock sells a set of balance rail cauls that are not oversized like the standard ones. These will leave the bushings a little tighter. Even so, I pull the cauls out after about 15 minutes to allow the bushings to expand slightly. This seems to get them very close to where I like them. Also I prefer the balance rail bushings to have ears. Others prefer to have them cut flush with the top of the key, but I see no advantage to this. By stretching the felt over the top of the key, I believe it puts a little tension in the felt which I feel is beneficial. Additionally, the ears sit up about a millimeter or so above the surface of the keybutton - this gives slightly more support - again, another advantage from my viewpoint. If anyone knows of a functional advantage of having the cloth cut flush, I'd like to know what it is. Of course, hot hide glue is the correct glue to use. It gels on the surface of the felt, leaving it more resilient, and it is easier to replace the bushings in the future. For getting old bushings out, I find it is best to soak them first before using the steam. Formula 409 seems to work the best! I mix it with 50 percent water. I use small wedges cut from hammer scraps that are small enough to fit into the mortises. These get soaked in the solution and inserted into the keys. If you leave them overnight they may dry out, so it is best to cover them with plastic wrap. In the morning you will find that they will usually almost fall out with no steam needed. Sometimes a little steam will still facilitate removal. On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Matthew Todd <toddpianoworks at att.net <http://us.mc838.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=toddpianoworks@att.net> > wrote: I will be doing a balance rail bushing job soon, and just wanted to see how replacing the balance rail differs from replacing the front rail, i.e., the key buttons. I am assuming I can take off the old ones using steam. And then, what would be the best cauls to purchase. Thank you for the advice, TODD PIANO WORKS Matthew Todd, Piano Technician (979) 248-9578 http://www.toddpianoworks.com <http://www.toddpianoworks.com/> -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA www.pianova.net <http://www.pianova.net/> -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA www.pianova.net -- Ryan Sowers, RPT Puget Sound Chapter Olympia, WA www.pianova.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090711/2213eaca/attachment-0001.htm>
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