Ed Sutton wrote: Incidentally, Mr. Thorndahl said that with a few household chemicals, he could make hide glue behave like most of the bottled glues. I hope to get with him on this some day. I'd like to reduce my shop clutter." Wow Ed, another good argument for using hot hide glue! ;-} Al -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ed Sutton" <ed440 at mindspring.com> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:23 PM To: <pianotech at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Glue for hammers - question > Ron- > > I don't understand your reply. > > My impression is that as long as the glue holds the hammer on the shank > without rattling or wobbling, that is probably adequate for tonal > purposes. Other factors may cause someone to choose a particular glue. > > Since the claim is sometimes made that hide glue is "acoustically > superior," I'd like to hear the evidence (pun intended.) > > Having used hide glue, carpenter's yellow glue (both straight out of the > bottle and thickened) and Titebond Molding glue, my impression is that > they all sound fine, as long as you get enough in the joint to make a good > bond. If something is better, I'll adopt it. > > Incidentally, Mr. Thorndahl said that with a few household chemicals, he > could make hide glue behave like most of the bottled glues. I hope to get > with him on this some day. I'd like to reduce my shop clutter. > > Ed > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnossaman at cox.net> > To: "Ed Sutton" <ed440 at mindspring.com>; <pianotech at ptg.org> > Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:19 PM > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Glue for hammers - question > > >> Ed Sutton wrote: >>> I am curious what the arguments or evidence may be for the tonal >>> superiority of a rock solid hammer to shank joint. >>> >>> A rattling joint is not good, but what is lost if there is a small >>> degree of flexibility in the glue? >>> >>> The hammer felt itself is definitely flexible by design, and not rock >>> hard. >>> >>> The hammer is not being driven when it reaches the string, it is moving >>> by its own inertia. >>> >>> It is generally considered desirable that the hammer stay in contact >>> with the string a period of time, and not rebound instantly. >>> >>> Eugene Thorndahl, the former glue chemist at Peter Cooper, suggested to >>> me that a small amount of glycerine added to hide glue would give it a >>> little more flexibility, and produce a more dependable hammer joint, but >>> he was addressing the strength of the joint under stress, not acoustic >>> issues. >>> >>> Ed Sutton >> >> And don't forget the action bedding, and the flange pinning, and the >> backcheck height (2mm below the tail at drop), and the front rail >> punchings, and the coupling of the casters to the floor, and the room >> acoustics, and the front leading in the keys (for inertia control), and >> the hammer needling and lacquer application techniques and locations, and >> the duplex scale tuning, and, of course, the A-4 pitch and temperament >> choice. Why, with all this sterling ammunition, are these things still >> being endlessly debated as if they were real? All evidence considered, it >> doesn't seem to much matter, since it's not apparently possible to make >> the right set of choices in *any* specific situation. >> >> If all this nonsense still hasn't been hashed out by now in the real >> world of day to day piano service, what's the point? >> Ron N > >
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