[pianotech] Glue for hammers - question

Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 8 05:45:17 MDT 2009


Ed  Sutton wrote:

Incidentally, Mr. Thorndahl said that with a few household chemicals, he
could make hide glue behave like most of the bottled glues. I hope to get
with him on this some day. I'd like to reduce my shop clutter."

Wow Ed, another good argument for using hot hide glue! ;-}

Al




--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ed  Sutton" <ed440 at mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:23 PM
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Glue for hammers - question

> Ron-
>
> I don't understand your reply.
>
> My impression is that as long as the glue holds the hammer on the shank 
> without rattling or wobbling, that is probably adequate for tonal 
> purposes. Other factors may cause someone to choose a particular glue.
>
> Since the claim is sometimes made that hide glue is "acoustically 
> superior," I'd like to hear the evidence (pun intended.)
>
> Having used hide glue, carpenter's yellow glue (both straight out of the 
> bottle and thickened) and Titebond Molding glue, my impression is that 
> they all sound fine, as long as you get enough in the joint to make a good 
> bond. If something is better, I'll adopt it.
>
> Incidentally, Mr. Thorndahl said that with a few household chemicals, he 
> could make hide glue behave like most of the bottled glues. I hope to get 
> with him on this some day. I'd like to reduce my shop clutter.
>
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ron Nossaman" <rnossaman at cox.net>
> To: "Ed Sutton" <ed440 at mindspring.com>; <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Glue for hammers - question
>
>
>> Ed Sutton wrote:
>>> I am curious what the arguments or evidence may be for the tonal 
>>> superiority of a rock solid hammer to shank joint.
>>>
>>> A rattling joint is not good, but what is lost if there is a small 
>>> degree of flexibility in the glue?
>>>
>>> The hammer felt itself is definitely flexible by design, and not rock 
>>> hard.
>>>
>>> The hammer is not being driven when it reaches the string, it is moving 
>>> by its own inertia.
>>>
>>> It is generally considered desirable that the hammer stay in contact 
>>> with the string a period of time, and not rebound instantly.
>>>
>>> Eugene Thorndahl, the former glue chemist at Peter Cooper, suggested to 
>>> me that a small amount of glycerine added to hide glue would give it a 
>>> little more flexibility, and produce a more dependable hammer joint, but 
>>> he was addressing the strength of the joint under stress, not acoustic 
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> Ed Sutton
>>
>> And don't forget the action bedding, and the flange pinning, and the 
>> backcheck height (2mm below the tail at drop), and the front rail 
>> punchings, and the coupling of the casters to the floor, and the room 
>> acoustics, and the front leading in the keys (for inertia control), and 
>> the hammer needling and lacquer application techniques and locations, and 
>> the duplex scale tuning, and, of course, the A-4 pitch and temperament 
>> choice. Why, with all this sterling ammunition, are these things still 
>> being endlessly debated as if they were real? All evidence considered, it 
>> doesn't seem to much matter, since it's not apparently possible to make 
>> the right set of choices in *any* specific situation.
>>
>> If all this nonsense still hasn't been hashed out by now in the real 
>> world of day to day piano service, what's the point?
>> Ron N
>
> 


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