On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Shawn Brock <shawnbrock at fuse.net> wrote: > Mike, > > we sound a lot alike. I could easily blow up when it comes to people owing > me money especially if they are less than truthful. That's part of the > reason > I have been b******g on the list... Its easier to get it out of ones > system with people who know how you feel and a lot less costly than calling > a church > up and cussing a blue streak... Don't get me wrong, if people don't have > the money I understand. I have 2 customers who owe me money for rebuilds. > I > chose to do the work and let them pay monthly payments. They always pay > and are never late. Once one of them had to go a month with out making a > payment but he called me and asked. I told him it was no problem, I trust > the guy and the fact that he had the consideration to call me and ask speaks > highly of him in my opinion. I have helped him out when he couldn't afford > to have both of his pianos tuned I would do one for free and tell him not to > worry about it. The good deed never goes unrewarded. I don't give the guy > a free tuning because I have to, I do it because he really appreciates the > work that's put into his pianos. He uses his extra piano and time to give > lessons to children and adults who can't afford to pay for lessons. I > figure the free tuning helps in the mission... Maybe the rich church in the > rich part of town should start a program like he has. > > Shawn Brock, RPT > Block quote start > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Michael Magness <IFixPianos at yahoo.com> > *To:* pianotech at ptg.org > *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 4:05 PM > *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited > > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Shawn Brock <shawnbrock at fuse.net> wrote: > >> Patrick, >> >> I'm with you 100 percent and some how I have kept myself under control >> when I have called these people. I try not to call to often. Usually after >> 2 calls each placed a week apart,, and after the payment has been 10 days or >> more over due they seem to respond an pay up. If I had a lot of time on my >> hands I would probably consider taking them to small claims, just to get the >> point across. How ever I don't have the time or that much longing for >> revenge. I do think that if I didn't make the past due calls that I >> probably wouldn't get paid though. I let an invoice go until it was 43 days >> over due with one of the churches just to see when or if they would pay up. >> After 43 days I had enough though and called to remind them. So... I guess >> we will see what happens this time. I am going to stick to what I said >> about the price change though. If they don't like it they can always get >> someone different to tune for them. >> >> Regards, >> Shawn Brock, RPT >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* J Patrick Draine <jpdraine at gmail.com> >> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org >> *Sent:* Friday, March 06, 2009 7:49 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited >> >> James, While I don't agree with the notion that any particular "$XXX is >> overpriced" statement makes a lot of sense, given the many variables of >> current economic conditions, geographic and cost of living variables, >> expertise, etc. -- your suggestion that "Too much price fluctuation >> confuses clients" hits the target bullseye. >> I do not offer institutional discounts; payment within 30 days is great >> but can't be depended upon. >> Punitive pricing -- "you're always late with the check" -- doesn't go over >> very well. >> Shawn, If the client is running past that, one can make a practice of >> "keeping in touch" with the responsible parties and casually remind them >> that you haven't yet received payment, but you don't want to project too >> much nervous irritated energy at your client. >> But hey, this is indeed an appropriate place to "blow off some steam" when >> these things happen. >> Patrick Draine >> >> On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Pianoman <pianoman at accessus.net> wrote: >> >>> $120 seems over priced. Are you going to price your self out of a job? >>> Too much price fluctuation confuses clients. >>> James >>> James Grebe >>> Since 1962 >>> Piano Tuning & Repair >>> Creator of Handsome Hardwood Products( >>> 314) 608-4137 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 >>> Researcher of St. Louis Theatre History >>> BECOME WHAT YOU BELIEVE! >>> www.grebepiano.com >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Magness" < >>> IFixPianos at yahoo.com> >>> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 6:44 PM >>> >>> Subject: Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Shawn Brock <shawnbrock at fuse.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Thanks to everyone who responded to my ramblings. I am combining >>>>> your >>>>> thoughts for my solution. I have decided that I will stop giving the >>>>> multiple piano discount to each of these churches. I was charging $110 >>>>> for >>>>> the first tuning and $100 for each tuning after that. I know $10 don't >>>>> seem >>>>> like much of a discount, but sense they each have 5 pianos I was taking >>>>> $40 >>>>> off the bill and to me that's a decent discount... So that's the first >>>>> thing I'm going to do. My next solution is to charge $120 per tuning >>>>> if I'm >>>>> not going to be paid on the date that services are rendered. I >>>>> understand >>>>> that some large churches do have to jump through hoops to get a check >>>>> out to >>>>> a contractor but these people are just taking advantage of me. In each >>>>> of >>>>> the 2 churches the music director makes the appointment and he also has >>>>> the >>>>> ability to sign a check. In addition to this fact keep in mind each >>>>> time I >>>>> have turned in my invoice to the music director. I always get the same >>>>> words from each of these guys, "I'll have this in the mail to you in a >>>>> day >>>>> or two." The day or two always turns into more than thirty days. Some >>>>> times it has been 2 months! To me that's just B-S and making more on >>>>> the >>>>> job or not performing the work is the only way it can be handled. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again, >>>>> Shawn Brock RPT >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* wimblees at aol.com >>>>> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:09 PM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited >>>>> >>>>> Shawn. >>>>> >>>>> With a big church, it usually not just one or two people who are >>>>> involved >>>>> in getting bills paid. Bills have to be approved the appropriate >>>>> person, >>>>> (choir director), then sent to the finance committee, which meets once >>>>> a >>>>> month, then the accountant, who approves the disbursement, and then >>>>> finally >>>>> to the person who actually writes the check. Once the check has been >>>>> printed, it needs to be signed by the accountant, or treasurer, and >>>>> maybe >>>>> even counter signed. All that takes time, and, as you indicated, if any >>>>> one >>>>> of those people are sick or out of town, it further delays the process. >>>>> >>>>> Two suggestions. One, talk to the choir director, or music chairman, >>>>> tell >>>>> him/her your concern, and ask for his/her recommendation on how to get >>>>> paid >>>>> faster. >>>>> Two, Put on the bill that if it is paid within 14/30 day, they will get >>>>> a >>>>> 10% discount. Or the other way around, say that interest at 18% will be >>>>> added to bill if it is paid after 30 days. If they don't pay the extra, >>>>> add >>>>> it to the next bill. You can either itemize the bill, and put on it, >>>>> "balance carried forward", or if you give them a discount for multiple >>>>> pianos, don't give them the discount the next time you tune for them. >>>>> >>>>> As far as last minute tunings, add 25% to the tuning bill for >>>>> "emergency >>>>> service." They will either remember to call you sooner, or you'll get >>>>> paid >>>>> extra for going out of your way. >>>>> >>>>> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT >>>>> Piano Tuner/Technician >>>>> Mililani, Oahu, HI >>>>> 808-349-2943 >>>>> Author of: >>>>> The Business of Piano Tuning >>>>> available from Potter Press >>>>> www.pianotuning.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Shawn Brock <shawnbrock at fuse.net> >>>>> To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> >>>>> Sent: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 4:28 am >>>>> Subject: [pianotech] slow paying customers revisited >>>>> >>>>> List, >>>>> >>>>> I know we had a thread going not long ago on slow paying customers and >>>>> last >>>>> year I had complained a little about some of the churches I serve. I >>>>> have >>>>> some >>>>> questions that I would like to gather some answers for and some >>>>> statements >>>>> that may or may not be out of line (you tell me.) First: how long do >>>>> you >>>>> give >>>>> commercial/institutional/church customers to pay the balance for your >>>>> services? For most of these types of account I have been giving 14 >>>>> days >>>>> from the >>>>> date of service to the date of payment due. That seems more than >>>>> reasonable to me, after all the phone company and other utilities don't >>>>> give >>>>> you that >>>>> much time from when you receive the bill to the due date. Perhaps I'm >>>>> being unreasonable though? I have 2 churches that are my slowest >>>>> paying >>>>> customers, >>>>> and they are maybe the richest churches I work for. Each has 5 pianos >>>>> that >>>>> get regular service and both are slow paying. Its funny... It seems >>>>> that >>>>> the people with the least amount of money are the first to pay, I find >>>>> that >>>>> those folks are the ones who have a check waiting on the date of the >>>>> appointment... >>>>> So back to the topic at hand. I had cut the slow payers back to a 10 >>>>> day >>>>> due date or a "payment due on date of service" instead of the 14 days I >>>>> had >>>>> been giving them. That hasn't seemed >>>>> to help! Each time I work for them it never fails that I have to make >>>>> numerous phone calls to get my money. They both have a long list of >>>>> excuses >>>>> that >>>>> they run through (the accountant is on vacation, the accountant is >>>>> sick, we >>>>> misplaced the invoice, we thought we had 30 days, a check should have >>>>> been >>>>> in the mail to you, I will have to check with someone and get back with >>>>> you) and so on. I could have understood this once or even more, but >>>>> this is >>>>> every time I deal with these people and I'm sick of it! These 2 >>>>> churches >>>>> were served in a 2 day period and now they are both past due by more >>>>> than a >>>>> week. I wouldn't be as quick to complain but we are talking over $1000 >>>>> that >>>>> is due to me and I could use it. Last I checked I still have bills to >>>>> pay. >>>>> So what's the answer? Maybe I should charge more and give them a >>>>> discount >>>>> if they pay on time? Or is that to complicated? Maybe I should just >>>>> stop >>>>> working for them? Damn! I'm sorry but when it takes people more than >>>>> 30 >>>>> days to pay that seems a little excessive to me. Its not like these >>>>> people >>>>> even have to pay taxes... One thing that fuels my fire is these are >>>>> the >>>>> same people who will call you and want you to come out to tune for a >>>>> concert >>>>> the same day, or the next day. They new about the concert months ago >>>>> but >>>>> didn't have the foresight to schedule the tuning. And then... They >>>>> show >>>>> you gratitude by paying in a month and a half! "We need you now and we >>>>> will >>>>> pay you when ever we want." Well, that's how it seems any how. Come >>>>> on >>>>> people and share your wisdom with me. I could use it... After all we >>>>> are >>>>> not just talking about $1000 which is in my opinion still a substantial >>>>> amount of money. We are talking about 2 days worth of work and we are >>>>> also >>>>> talking about principles. If they couldn't afford to pay it would be >>>>> different but at a glance you know that you are just getting kicked >>>>> around. >>>>> All comments and ideas are appreciated. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Shawn Brock, RPT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!< >>>>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219957551x1201325337/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62 >>>>> > >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> I solved this years ago, I thought by printing on my invoices that >>>> 1&1/2% >>>> interest begins after 30 days and continues monthly until paid. >>>> Last year I collected on a 3 tuning job along with a year's interest!! I >>>> guess I didn't solve it after all. >>>> Schools just ignore it entirely and pay when they get around to it. Most >>>> others are reasonably timely and I've grown more patient over the years, >>>> deciding to consider checks that finally arrive in my mailbox as "found" >>>> money! (grin) >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> -- >>>> I intend to live forever. So far, so good. >>>> Steven Wright >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Magness >>>> Magness Piano Service >>>> 608-786-4404 >>>> www.IFixPianos.com <http://www.ifixpianos.com/> >>>> email mike at ifixpianos.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > > Hi Shawn, > > I think you need to state the conditions of your service for this customer > plainly and consider whether the aggravation is worth the renumeration! > Perhaps make a point of requesting a check be waiting for you next time you > are called to tune, when you arrive ask to see it, if it isn't there, refuse > to tune. Point made, you will either becalled again with funds at the ready > or not bothered by them again. > > I will suggest to all of you to discuss this here or with friends and not > do what I did a few years ago in a slightly differing scenario. > I was asked, months in advance, to tune 12 pianos for the district music > contests at a nearby high school by a director who frequently asked me for > "favors" and "touchups" was slow in paying. Not really her fault, I guess > but others I billed in the district seemed to get paid for faster. > Anyway the week of the contest arrived and she had e-mailed prior to that > suggesting I could stop in early to get started on the practice room pianos, > since they would need a couple of tunings to settle them down. I began going > there on Tuesday went back on Wednesday. On Thursday they began bringing > some of the pianos from the other schools, grade schools, in and I started > on them, on Friday I had a friend come in, one of the newbies in our > chapter who is getting to be a pretty good tuner/tech to help me out. We > finished them all up by early evening, there were only eleven instead of 12 > due to the custodians bringing a digital instead of an acoustic. I had also > brought my moving supplies and supervised some students moving the grand, a > C3, into the library past the electronic gates that guard against theft of > books. I also returned on Monday and moved it back. > I left my bill for the work on that Monday. > > @ days later I got an e-mail asking if I could accept less, that they > hadn't budgeted that much and had in fact only budgeted an amount not even > large enough to pay for tuning the 12 pianos originally planned for. Which > means the extra tuning, the other repairs and adjustments and the moving she > had asked me to do, she knew she had no money for! > > I LOST IT! I wrote her a 1 &1/2 page letter blasting her up one side and > down the other. Among other things asking if she had asked the mechanic, > electrician, plumber or furnace repair man to "take less" lately. I went on > to point out I was a fulltime technician not some partime tooner and on and > on. > Then to make matters worse I copied it to her Vice-principal, a man I'd > known and tuned for at another district for 15 years and to the > Superintendent of the district who I knew well, as a former music teacher > and someone who worked his way through college doing "piece work" in a piano > shop. > > It's taken an apology, a gift of a polishing kit, a couple of years and a > few favors to settle that one. > > So talk to others before you talk to them. > > Mike > -- > I intend to live forever. So far, so good. > Steven Wright > > > Michael Magness > Magness Piano Service > 608-786-4404 > www.IFixPianos.com <http://www.ifixpianos.com/> > email mike at ifixpianos.com > > I probably should have prefaced that last post or at least the story about the instructor asking me to "take less" with the explanation that it was 37 years in the making I had never gone off on anyone before, so she caught it ALL! Mike -- I intend to live forever. So far, so good. Steven Wright Michael Magness Magness Piano Service 608-786-4404 www.IFixPianos.com email mike at ifixpianos.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech_ptg.org/attachments/20090306/1f42a53d/attachment-0001.html>
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