[pianotech] Aurally pure octaves

[Ed Sutton]

William and Tyler-

I think we're getting somewhere.

As a child and teenager (not to mention adult), I was fascinated by sound, and was constantly experimenting (or "fooling around," some might say.) I played classical guitar, and was constantly exploring timbre. A sensitive guitarist is voicing the instrument with every note. I learned about harmonics, and realized I could hear them in the sound of the strings.

My current sense is that in a well-designed, well-voiced piano, there is an easy relationship between the two ways of hearing. The "whole" sound is good, and the "partial" sounds are well-balanced and blended; they give warmth and vibrancy without calling unpleasant attention to themselves. My final test is always musical. 

Yesterday I was tuning an old Acrosonic spinet in a choir warm-up room. The choir master had said: "You will be surprised how well this piano serves us." When I finished tuning I played mid-range triads around the circle of fifths and played the tonic of each triad up and down through the range of the instrument. It sounded quite good! [The piano was donated a year ago. It's an early Acrosonic with the wood pick-up fingers. At that time I shaped and voiced the worn hammers. It still has lots of wheezing and false-beating strings, though not as bad as some old spinets.I tuned it with Cybertuner using Jorgensen's "Broadwood's Best WT" I think I'd go crazy trying to tune an old spinet aurally.]

Before that I tuned a rebuilt Steinway M with Arledge bass strings and Abel hammers. With this instrument I could play long, open intervals across the piano and just delight in their existence. (Couldn't really do that with the Acrosonic.) When I played triads with octaves the instrument sounded wonderfully warm and embracing. (The customer insisted on lacquering the treble, and I'm not sure I'll ever like the piano as much as I liked it yesterday.)

I don't know about the ability of technicians to isolate partials. In our chapter we have ETD tuners who can't hear partials and are thoroughly confused by any mention of them. We have one fellow who passed the tuning exam aurally after about 3 years of disciplined study and practice while working 60 hours a week at Home Depot. I was sitting there when he suddenly began hearing partials! It was thrilling to be there!

It is very helpful to have some dialogue about this. I believe it is possible to make new learning tools that will help people develop these skills quickly. Give me an 8 day week and I'll learn to write computer programs...

Meanwhile, I hope we can record some masterfully tuned octaves in Grand Rapids, have some interesting articles and post the tuning samples on the Journal media page.

Ed Sutton

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: William Monroe 
  To: Ed Sutton ; pianotech at ptg.org 
  Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aurally pure octaves


  Ed,

  Thank you for responding.  I had a suspicion that this is what was happening.  Your experience pretty much mirrors mine.  Though at this stage of my career, being able to focus on partials at a multiple locations, or, particularly locations, is not instantaneous, I certainly do that, as well as listen "musically".  I think when I first started I listened "musically" because it was the most obvious for me, then with training, learned to isolate partials.  I suppose over time I've come to think of musical listening as undesireable, unfocused.  Perhaps it would serve me well to revisit that idea.

  Do you think in your experience that MOST technicians can isolate partials at different levels?  It would seem likely to me.  And it also seems likely that we are all capable of listening "musically," too; we probably all first hear intervals that way.  For me, I think it's harder to listen "musically."  My brain is just drawn to the partials.  I'll fiddle around with it a bit.  Thanks again for taking time to respond.

  William R. Monroe



  On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Ed Sutton <ed440 at mindspring.com> wrote:

    William-

    Since I can do both, I'll explain:

    When I listen "musically" to a Major third, say F3-A3, the beating sounds like its a vibrato happening at the pitch level of the thirds; imagine, say, a violin playing the third with vibrato.

    When I listen "analytically," I let my hearing scan up the overtones until I hear the co-incident partials where the beating is occurring. Now I can recognize that the beating that I first heard at the fundamental level is really happening at the 5/4 level and that there is no beat at the fundamental level.

    As long as I can remember I have been able to listen to a tone and consciously isolate many of the partials of the tone. I thought everyone could do this, but in teaching I've learned that not everyone can. I've also seen people who could not hear the partials of a tone suddenly become able to hear them.

    When I talk of different modes of perception, I am referring to these two different ways of hearing which I can usually effect at will by just imagining how I want to hear.

    Ed Sutton
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: William Monroe 
      To: pianotech at ptg.org 
      Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:13 PM
      Subject: Re: [pianotech] Aurally pure octaves


      SNIP 


        I was drawn to the idea that tuners need not listen to beats at their specific pitch levels, since I am one the tuners who has never heard coincident partials at a their actual pitches.


        Whole sound tuning is where it's at. It is not secret knowledge. I'll be attempting to demonstrate next week at the Central-West Regional Seminar in Wichita.


        Kent


      Kent,

      Can you explain this more clearly?  I know it's been (re)hashed many times and, recently, but, where DO you hear the coincident partials if not at their specific pitches?  I'm more than open to learning/experiencing this technique, and I've no doubt standing behind you (Virgil, DA, etc.) would be far more instructive, and I intend to do that at GR if DA gets it going; but for now, are you just listening to "everything presented" at once?  Or is it something different, specific to partials, but with a slightly different focus?
       
      William R. Monroe


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