I think a lot of this discussion is from a fantasy world many piano technicians seem to be living in...are we really expecting a brand new piano to be regulated, tuned and voiced to a knat's hair before it will sell? Is this not a little self-serving...how many of you have talked about the need for their newly hung hammers to be played in before more voicing? I think these factory hammers have been pretty recently installed also...new parts...things change with playing and acclimation...I love Yamaha's Service Bond. I think more manufacturers should take the same approachh. I think of it as a breaking in period...wood, wire, wool... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "William Truitt" <surfdog at metrocast.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 11/27/2009 3:11:44 AM Subject: Re: [pianotech] To Don, Mark, and Roger. Was Jeannie, etc. >It doesn't necessarily pay for itself. I was a Baldwin and Young Chang >dealer for 7 years, as well as being a RPT technician for last 27 years. I >always sent my pianos out in good condition to my customers, doing the >dealer prep, which too often consisted of regulation and voicing far beyond >anything what the dealer should be expected to do. I spent 2 to 3 days >regulating each Baldwin Grand I had in my store. Most of this time was >uncompensated by the manufacturer, which meant that I was doing it for free >on just about every piano that came into my store. I did it because I felt >that the pianos were arriving not ready for prime time and were unsalable >without this attention. So it was in my self interest to do it, was good >for my reputation and did help me sell some pianos, but that is still a far >cry from the same thing as it paying for itself. Instead, it was one more >thing that attacks the bottom line and makes it harder to be profitable in a >business that is very hard to make money in the first place. Spending so >much time doing prep takes you away from other things that are profitable, >like rebuilding work in shop or outside tuning work. I was lazy, so I >limited myself to working 80 hours a week. >I don't want to impugn the manufacturers, I have respect for them and >sympathy for their difficulties in these times and others, but the dark >underbelly of all this has been that too many (but not all) manufacturers >deliberately offloaded this work to the dealers so that they didn’t have to >pay somebody to do it. That puts the dealer in the position of either >ignoring it, which many do; or working for free on piano after piano. >Some of you will say, well you can write that into the cost of the piano. >It's a very competitive, dollar driven business. Sometimes you can squeeze >that into the price, but mostly you can't. When you can't, you are working >for free. My reward for being so conscientious is that I get to work for >free, again and again and again! Isn't that a wonderful business model? >I never lied to my customers, and when there were problems after sale I took >care of the customer. I mean no disrespect to my dear technician friends, >but until you have walked in our shoes, you shouldn't presume to know what >the dealer's responsibilities should be. Dealer prep is the dealer's >responsibility and should be done, but where do the manufacturers >responsibilities end and the dealers begin? >Will Truitt >-----Original Message----- >From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf >Of Scott Helms, RPT >Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 5:30 AM >To: pianotech at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [pianotech] To Don, Mark, and Roger. Was Jeannie, etc. >Interesting that you mention that, Gregor. I work for a dealer who, like >the one Jer worked for, makes sure that every piano is prepped and tuned >before it leaves the store. He has a prep checklist that the techs use on >each piano before it goes out. It's not a different list for each brand, >because they all need to be in the same condition when they leave. Some >pianos do need more prep than others, but since it's the same intended end >result, you can use just one checklist and if a given piano doesn't need a >certain step in the list, you just check it off and move on to the next >thing on the list. This dealer's reputation is also very good, and he >sells a lot of pianos because of the prep that's put into his pianos - >same experience as Jer. Incidentally, the vast majority of the techs who >work for him are RPTs. Hmmmm, do we sense a pattern here? I do think it >would be helpful for manufacturers to stress THIS point to dealers - if >you prep the pianos well, you'll sell more pianos. It pays for itself. >Scott >------ >Scott A. Helms, Registered Piano Technician >480-818-3871 >www.helmsmusic.net >> >> Perhaps it would help to give the dealers a script in writing what exactly >> he is expected to to. Prepping is a great word. Does it mean that Joe >> Sixpack does not notice small failures or does it mean that the piano >> meets the standard of the manufacturer? Some brands need more prepping >> than others. So, why not to hand out a script, just like a pre-flight >> check list in aviation? >> >> Gregor >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> piano technician - tuner - dealer >> M¨¹nster, Germany >> www.weldert.de >> >> >> >> >> From: tunerboy3 at comcast.net >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:12:47 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] To Don, Mark, and Roger. Was Jeannie, etc. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "This is where I think you, and the marketing >> department, can do a much better job educating your dealers. From the >> posts you >> have written, it appears you are taking the attitude that the stores are >> doing >> what they can to service the pianos, and that my suggestion that dealers >> be >> required to hire trained technicians to properly prep pianos, is not >> realistic. >> I¡¯m sorry, but as has been shown here on the list, most technicians are >> of the >> opinion that stores, for the most part, do not seem to care about service >> before the sale. Perhaps when stores are required to hire trained >> technicians >> to properly prep pianos before they leave the store, we would not be >> having >> this discussion." >> >> >> >> I would like to add my input on dealer prep as well. When I >> worked for a dealer 30 years ago, his pianos were not allowed out of the >> store >> unless every single one of them regardless of quality, were prepped >> according >> to the dealer's specs and to his liking. He had very high standards. >> This particular >> dealer happened to be an RPT and was a stickler for quality. He sold a >> LOT of >> pianos I think, due to the fact not only of his reputation after the sale >> but >> for his reputation before the sale as well. If it wasn't right, it didn't >> go out, >> period. >> >> >> >> I cannot begin to count the amount of times people came in remarking >> about how much better his pianos sounded (they were always in tune) and >> played >> than the competition in and out of our city, than any other they had heard >> and >> then bought his, because of this. Of course, consequently, we had very >> little >> problems after the sale but, as I said, if and when we did, he fixed them >> immediately with no questions asked. Customer service and customer >> happiness >> was his ultimate goal for more future recommedations from these same >> clients >> and therefore, more future sales. It was, a win, win situation for all. >> Happy >> customers and lots of referrals. >> >> >> >> I believe dealers would sell more pianos today if all pianos regardless >> of quality, were properly prepped and tuned. I know we as the techs in >> the >> field would most certainly have a lot less problems, dealers would have a >> lot >> less complaints from us as would the manufacturer's. It seems to me, this >> would be a money saver for all parties involved long term. >> >> >> >> Recently, I looked at a very nice, good quality, used piano at a >> dealer. I was hired by the individual that was looking to buy the piano. >> This >> particular piano was prepped, tuned and voiced but, unfortunately, it was >> not >> prepped and voiced as good as it could have been. Cutting corners and >> saving >> money seems to be the ultimate goal in many instances today. I was >> called in >> by a professional pianist that noticed the difference in the touch and >> sound on >> this piano. The very first questions she asked me was, what the problem >> was, could >> it be corrected and especially, WHY was it NOT corrected prior to her 2nd >> and >> 3rd visits there when she had already mentioned it to the dealer after the >> first visit? Instead, it appears, the dealer chose to tell her that it >> had >> been corrected after the 2nd time when in fact, nothing had apparently >> been >> changed. Trying to fool a client is not advisable. >> >> >> >> As always, I gave my honest opinion that the piano could be >> improved with 3 or 4 more hours of mating and voicing and touch up >> regulation and >> should be improved on the spot before, rather than after the sale adding >> that >> the piano would be a fine instrument afterward. However, I think they >> lost the >> sale. She didn't trust the dealer totally after that. It is one thing to >> tell >> someone that it can be improved and will be. It is quite another, do >> actually >> do so. >> >> >> >> These days, I encounter more improperly unprepped pianos than >> ever before. I complete the prep in the field and either collect from the >> manufacturer, or from the dealer. Either way, it would be nice to see >> better >> prepped pianos coming out. It seems to me that over all, it would save >> both >> the dealer and manufacture not only face but, money long term by having >> properly prepped pianos. >> >> >> >> Jer Groot RPT >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >> wimblees at aol.com >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:26 PM >> >> To: Pianotech at PTG.org; caut at ptg.org >> >> Subject: [pianotech] To Don, Mark, and Roger. Was Jeannie, etc. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I¡¯m sending this to both Pianotech and CAUT, because there have >> been discussion about dealer service on both. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Don, Mark, & Roger >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This post is directed not only at you, but also all the factory >> representatives that teach at PTG sponsored seminars and technical >> institutes. >> But since you three have been monitoring this list, and since you were >> involved >> in the recent discussion between ¡°us¡± and ¡°you¡±, I want to address >> this to you >> three. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Let me start by saying thank you, for al the time and effort you >> give teaching at the seminars. From what I understand, although your >> expenses >> are basically paid, the time you spend on the road, away from your family, >> is >> all part of the job description, and you are expected to teach at these >> seminars over and above your ¡°day¡± job. So, again, thank you for all >> your >> dedication to this industry. It is much appreciated. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>From what has been posted over the past several weeks, the basic >> problem seems to be getting dealers to properly prepare your pianos before >> they >> leave the store. There seems to be a dichotomy here. The manufactures >> spend a >> considerable amount of money sending you to seminars and conventions to >> teach >> us how to properly take care of your pianos. Yet your company does little >> to >> educate the dealers on the importance of hiring and properly compensating >> trained technician to prepare your pianos before the leave the store. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Although there are exceptions, dealers, for the most part, hire >> untrained, inexperienced piano tuners to just barely tune the pianos on >> the >> floor, and are reluctant to allow repairs, much less regulations, to be >> done to >> a piano unless it¡¯s absolutely necessary. As a long as a customer doesn't >> complain, pianos are sent out ¡°as is¡±, and the dealer crosses his finger >> that >> the customer will not notice. Then when the customer asked one of us tune >> the piano, and discovers the problems, we have to jump through hoops to >> get the >> dealer to pay for the work. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What I¡¯ve been arguing, yet you think I don¡¯t seem to understand, >> is that as long as there is no directive from the manufacturer, stores >> will not >> change the way they operate. We want to work with you, and we want what is >> best >> for our customer. But the relationship between us and the dealers are >> sometimes >> strained, because we want to do things to the piano to >> >> >> >> >> >> make it play and sound right, that the dealers don¡¯t want to pay >> for. The only time they are willing to pay, is when they can get >> reimbursed by >> the manufacturer. But the manufactures want documentation from us on >> what¡¯s >> going to be done, prior to it being done, and we must get permission from >> the >> dealers to do the work. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I can understand the need for this procedure, but if pianos were >> properly prepped in the store before they left there, there would be very >> little need for us to do warrantee work in the field in the first place. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> You want to train us, and we want work on your pianos. Yet the >> middle man, the dealer, doesn't seem to know, or care, about that >> relationship. >> Unless, and until, the manufactures start insisting that pianos should be >> prepped by properly compensated, factory authorized and trained >> technicians, >> before they leave the store, dealers will not do their part to make sure >> the >> pianos are ready for the customer to accept. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This is where I think you, and the marketing department, can do a >> much better job educating your dealers. From the posts you have written, >> it >> appears you are taking the attitude that the stores are doing what they >> can to >> service the pianos, and that my suggestion that dealers be required to >> hire >> trained technicians to properly prep pianos, is not realistic. I¡¯m sorry, >> but >> as has been shown here on the list, most technicians are of the opinion >> that >> stores, for the most part, do not seem to care about service before the >> sale. >> Perhaps when stores are required to hire trained technicians to properly >> prep >> pianos before they leave the store, we would not be having this >> discussion. >> >> >> >> >> >> ¡¡ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT >> >> Piano Tuner/Technician >> >> >> >> >> >> 94-505 Kealakaa Str. >> >> >> >> >> >> Mililani, Oahu, HI 96789 >> >> 808-349-2943 >> >> >> >> >> >> www.Bleespiano.com >> >> Author of: >> >> The Business of Piano Tuning >> >> available from Potter Press >> >> www.pianotuning.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> avast! 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