[pianotech] Squeaking soft "creaking" pedal problem

Tue Sep 1 17:02:05 MDT 2009

Jer, 

I would start by setting a brace on the floor (I have concrete, I don't know about a wooden floor) and then putting pressure up from the bottom with the pry bar and listen for the creaking sound. Then I would try it between the key-bed and pinblock with down pressure. No need to over-push, just a little pressure and release. I hope you find it. These things can drive you nuts!

Al

  From: Gerald Groot 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:07 PM
  To: pianotech at ptg.org 
  Subject: Re: [pianotech] Squeaking soft "creaking" pedal problem

  Hi Al,

  Yes, I did check the key frame for movement and tightened all key frame screws.  As I mentioned below, the only place I could find any movement was at the very back of the action where it appears that there is a separate piece of wood inserted where they go below the dags but, it takes a lot of pressure for me to move it at all.  

  I did check the lyre and lyre braces as well, forgot to mention that one, sorry.  That didn't affect it either.  I did not check the key bed with a pry bar.  Where would you suggest I check it?  Between the frame?

  Thanks,

  From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Al Guecia/AlliedPianoCraft
  Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:16 PM
  To: pianotech at ptg.org
  Subject: Re: [pianotech] Squeaking soft "creaking" pedal problem

  Jer, have you checked the key frame? There might be some movement as you shift causing the frame to creek. Another thing, I would check the key bed with a pry bar to see if there is any creaking there. One last thing, check for polyester to polyester creaking in the lyre and lyre to key bed connection.

  Al

    From: Gerald Groot 

    Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 3:50 PM

    To: pianotech at ptg.org 

    Subject: [pianotech] Squeaking soft "creaking" pedal problem

    Hi List,

    First of all, it is NOT a squeak.  It is a creaking sound.  I've encountered this on numerous occasions it seems, mostly on Kawai grand's.  This particular piano is a Kawai KG1D Serial 1312231.  Somewhere, in the mid to back of the action, it is creaking when the soft pedal is released. NOT when it is depressed.  On the last piano that I had do this, I had a hell of a time trying to locate the problem and in fact, never did find out what the cause was.  I even removed a couple of the dags thinking they were the problem but that didn't help at all.  Something sounds as if it is giving to me, but, WHAT?  

    Here is what I've checked and done today.  I tried shoving the action back, moving it forward, leaning HARD on the keys in the front, hard in the center, I tried raising and lowering the keyframe more than it should have been raised and lowered and even bedded the frame.  Nothing I did changed it or even slowed down the creaking.  I then removed the action.  

    I cleaned and McLubed the keyed where ever the action encounters friction.  I also Mclubed the soft pedal spring, dags, the pins that enter into the cheek blocks, and even the bottom of the action itself, again, where ever something engages something else on the key bed and moves basically got cleaned and lubricated with McLube.  

    I checked to see if there was any sway or give and take type movement in the back or center of the action and could find just a wee bit where the back of the action engages the dags in the area where it appears to be a separate piece of wood glued in each place where the dag is.  I could move it here but, I had to place quite a bit of pressure on those areas to get it to move.  I was thinking, perhaps, in that area, it may be moving just enough to cause a creaking sound but, I'm not sure if this is the problem. If so, what's the solution?  

    I've tightened all of the screws in the bottom of the action thinking maybe something was giving.  They were loose but it didn't help one bit.  Nothing did.  

    What it sounds like to me, is like something in the action itself is giving back there.  Of course, you can't see a damn thing so that doesn't help at all.  It appears to be coming from the mid tenor area.  

    Here's my theory from what I've checked.  Tell me if you think I'm wrong.  The only thing left that I can think of, is maybe where the soft pedal engages the bottom of the action itself, that in that little area or in the leather itself, something is either moving or possibly giving or worn?  Although, the leather doesn't look or feel bad there and I cannot feel any movement in that area either.  I wonder if gluing in a piece of felt in there might help?   

    Any other suggestions as what may be causing this?  I'm ready to throw the action across the room right about now.  

    Thanks in advance!

    Jer Groot RPT

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