[pianotech] billing dilemma with pitch raises

[Terry Farrell]

Yes, I remember that post about "razor's edge tolerance" with a  
unison. But that has nothing to do with the difference between a piano  
that doesn't need a pitch adjustment prior to tuning, and one that  
just had a pitch adjustment done and is ready to tune - they should be  
pretty much the same.

If you have  a piano where A49 (I presume that is A4 - I can't count  
that high.....) is at 440 and the tenor is sharp and/or the bass is  
flat........ well, if much is sharp and/or flat........ then maybe it  
needs a pitch adjustment? Yes? Isn't that what a pitch adjustment is  
for - to correct pitch?

Indeed, it will depend on how far off it is and what the situation  
demands. But it sounds to me like you are giving a lot a "freebies"  
away. Which may be okay, if you are comfortable with it - but your  
original question suggests otherwise.

Terry Farrell

On Nov 1, 2010, at 5:26 AM, David Nereson wrote:

>   Too many questions ... not sure how to answer them all right now.   
> I'll have to think about it more.
>   But here's an off-the-cuff response.
>   You had a post many years ago about how some pianos have a  
> "razor's edge tolerance" (or something like that) of where you can  
> set the string and have a beatless unison, and other's have a  
> "range" (a very thick razor blade with a "bull nose" edge rather  
> than the point of a 'V') within which they sound beatless, or very  
> close to beatless.  Well, the ones with only a razor's edge  
> tolerance take longer to tune.  You can't park the car "anywhere in  
> the driveway;" it's got to be on an exact spot.
>   Some pianos I tune every 3 months still take 1 1/2 or even 2 hours  
> to tune sometimes.  I don't know why.  They're just stubborn.  There  
> are others that only get tuned every couple years, or even every  
> five years or more, yet they stay right on A=440.  Some of those  
> take 45 minutes to tune; others 2 hours. The ones that take 2 hours  
> are probably only 10% of the total pianos tuned.  And same with the  
> ones that only take 45 minutes (except in the schools, which don't  
> always get a super-precise tuning).
>   But in general, after I do a pitch raise, the final tuning goes  
> quicker, I guess because it gets it closer to the final "target"  
> than a tuning on a piano whose A49 is at 440, but maybe the tenor is  
> sharp or the bass is flat or whatever.
>   --David Nereson, RPT
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Farrell" <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com 
> >
> To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] billing dilemma with pitch raises
>
>
>> David - I don't understand why your tuning time varies between  
>> whether  you have made a pitch adjustment to the piano, or not. I  
>> find that a  tuning typically takes me about 75 minutes whether or  
>> not I have made  a separate pitch correction prior to tuning.
>>
>> The only reason I can think of is that a piano which you determine   
>> does not require a pitch correction prior to tuning is  
>> significantly  further from being "in tune" than a piano  
>> immediately after you have  made a pitch correction. Is that true?  
>> Why would that be? The only  thing I can think of is that you are  
>> doing relatively accurate pitch  corrections (end result is within  
>> a cent or two of final target), and  you are willing to tune the  
>> same piano (same circumstances) without a pitch correction when it  
>> is significantly out of tune or off pitch  (more so than the result  
>> of your typical pitch correction).
>>
>> If that is true, then I would suggest that you are not recommending  
>> a  pitch correction in many situations when a pitch correction  
>> would be  beneficial. Most of my pitch corrections end up within a  
>> few cents of  target, and if I determine a piano does not need a  
>> pitch correction,  that piano is typically within a few cents of  
>> target (very similar to  the result of a pitch correction).
>>
>> How do the results of your pitch corrections compared to a piano  
>> that  you determine does not require a pitch correction prior to  
>> tuning.  Seems to me they should be about the same. And if they are  
>> the same or  similar, then why would the tuning time vary by 50%?
>>
>> Terry Farrell
>>
>> On Oct 31, 2010, at 1:04 AM, David Nereson wrote:
>>
>>>  Most tunings take me an hour and a half.  And for that amount of   
>>> time I charge $X.
>>>  But often, after a pitch raise, which gets the piano pretty  
>>> close  to being in tune, the final fine tuning only takes an hour.
>>>  Say the pitch raise took 1/2 hr, and the final tuning an hour.    
>>> That's an hour an a half.  How do I now justify charging extra  
>>> for  the pitch raise when a "plain vanilla" tuning also takes an  
>>> hour and  a half and I only charge $X for it?
>>> Or to look at it another way, if you charge $X per hour and base   
>>> your tuning fee on that, then go do a tuning and pitch raise that   
>>> only takes 1 1/2 hrs., but you still charge extra for the pitch   
>>> raise, then now you're charging more than $X per hour.
>>>  --David Nereson, RPT
>>
>