Excellent comments! And this is exactly what Jesus would do - correct? Terry Farrell On Nov 1, 2010, at 9:12 PM, Dean May wrote: > "What, pray tell, is the more sinister motive that the rest of us > (in our drooling tranquilized stupor) seem to be missing?" > > And why should I pay for the health care of someone who smokes, eats > fast food and drinks two liters of Coke a day? Health is directly > related to a person's lifestyle choices. I try to eat raw foods, I > buy grass fed organic beef and raw organic milk. I don't eat the > meat of trash eating animals. I take vitamins. I don't expect > someone else to pay for my health care or my family's. > > The sinister motive is you want the sheriff to steal bread from the > mouths of my children to pay for your health care and for the idiots > who abuse their bodies with what they do and eat. The very real > threat of lethal force backs up every piece of legislation. So in > essence, "free" health care advocates are willing to kill me to get > their free lunch. > > Medical care costs have skyrocketed during my lifetime. It has > paralleled the increase of "free" care provided by insurance and > Medicare. The more free you make it, the more expensive it becomes. > Lower costs come from responsible consumers making informed choices. > For example, my wife needed a gall bladder sonogram. I priced > shopped, something someone with insurance would never do. One > hospital (private) was going to charge around $400. The other > hospitial- public and bigger- was going to charge around $750. > Neither charge included the radiologists fee to read the results. I > found an independent imaging lab that charged $225 and that included > having their on site doctor read the results. How many people with > insurance or Medicare would have gone to this kind of effort??? The > answer is self evident. > > The reason health care is so expensive is because it is so free for > so many people. There is zero incentive (there is actually negative > incentive) to bargin for lower prices. And the more free you make it > the more expensive it will become. > > > > Dean > > Dean W May (812) 235-5272 > > PianoRebuilders.com (888) DEAN-MAY > > Terre Haute IN 47802 > > > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of William Truitt > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 7:42 PM > To: pmc033 at earthlink.net; pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing dilemmawith > pitch raises > > The inconvenient truth is that health care costs are already > bankrupting the economy. The lack of paying customers is slowly > bankrupting many hospitals, as the number of indigent patients > increase. One of the reasons our auto industry and so many other > industries are uncompetitive are health care costs. You may argue > that these costs should be shifted to the employee, which, more and > more they are. And so many cannot afford to carry the full burden > of health care, so they end up at the hospitals, placing a great > burden on the bottom line for the hospital and putting it at risk, > as the patient and their families topple into financial ruin. The > health care system is broken NOW. You may disagree with Obama’s > solution to the health care crisis, but he is not wrong to say that > we cannot go on as we have been. > > By the way, we are the only major industrialized democracy that does > not provide universal health care for its citizens. We have the > most expensive health care in the world, yet the care people receive > gets worse by the day. We’re not even in the top ten for quality of > care. Is the health care provided by these countries expensive? > Yes it is, and people’s taxes are correspondingly higher. But, when > people get sick they can go to the doctor, and then get the care > they need, great or small. Wow, that’s really cool!! I’m even old > enough to remember when it used to be like that here in the good old > USA. > > If I have a choice between not receiving health care at all > (hospitals, operations, doctors visits) because I cannot afford it > and am literally priced out of the system completely, or paying more > taxes and receiving quality health care whenever I need it, I pick > the latter. It’s a no brainer. It can be done, it’s already being > done successfully in many other countries less wealthy than this > one. And notice I said paying more taxes. I’m not getting > anything for free that way, I’m paying for it. Just like I’m > already paying for my social security and Medicare, ahem…. > > To say that “the new O’care will collapse the economy.” is stating a > belief or an assertion. That is not the same thing as a statement > of fact. In order for that to become a statement of fact, it has to > be substantiated by statistics and other facts. Otherwise it is > nothing more than fear mongering, as it has been so readily bandied > about. > > What, pray tell, is the more sinister motive that the rest of us (in > our drooling tranquilized stupor) seem to be missing? > > Will Truitt > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of Paul McCloud > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 8:39 AM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing > dilemmawith pitch raises > > Hi, All: > This story about this woman is indeed horrible. The > inconvenient truth is, the new O'care will collapse the economy. We > simply don't have the money, never mind the "Big Pharma", HMO's, > PPO's, etc. who are crushing the doctors and skewing their > judgment. In case you hadn't noticed, the United States Government > is broke, and we won't be able to pay the interest on the > debt.already. So, you can dream about this wonderful system being > successful here, but in the end it will bury us. The whole idea was > to insure those Americans who are uninsured, who have little income > to pay for expensive medical care. Sounds cozy, right? Gee, and > they will vote for us because we're doing them such a favor. The > real truth is, the whole exercise is designed for something more > sinister, and we're being sold down the river. But, "'tis folly to > be wise where ignorance is bliss". What I'm trying to say is that > we need to look at the big picture, and not be fooled by the "free > goodies" being passed out by the government to tranquilize the > population. Jer might be paying 50% in expenses, but wait 'till the > biggest expense is our TAXES. > Paul McCloud > San Diego, Kali-Fornia > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Truitt > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: 11/01/2010 3:14:15 AM > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing > dilemmawith pitch raises > > To David and all: > > I have a friend who is a head nurse at our local hospital. She has > been telling me recently how few paying patients and how many > indigent patients they have – sum total many empty beds. A symptom > of our expensive health care combined with this deep recession. > > Last week she told me of a woman who had been admitted with advanced > breast cancer – so far advanced that the diseased breast tissue > emitted a very foul smell, making their treatment of her medical > needs very unpleasant to accomplish. (Which they are all continuing > to do) > > I don’t mention this to gross anyone out on this forum. This woman > had no health insurance, and she and her family had ignored her > problem until she was too sick to be at home and finally came to a > hospital to die. I know nothing of her circumstances, but it seems > likely that they felt they had no options for her care as she became > sicker. > > I cannot think of a worse way to be sick than this. No doubt she > endured great pain at home as her illness advanced, and without > medication. In essence, she received no medical treatment until it > was time to die. At this stage of her disease, the only thing she > will gain as her disease continues to advance is pain medication to > ease her suffering until she dies, which she is at least receiving > now. > > Of course, she is in intensive care. Now, one of two things will > happen: One, her family will be saddled with staggering hospital > bills that will put them into financial ruin. The terrible irony > will be that, except for the end of life care she is now receiving, > she will have had no medical benefit from adding on all this expense > her family so feared and wanted to avoid, and yet they will still > lose everything. Or two, the hospital will be saddled with these > bills that make their financial existence less viable with every > passing day. > > I feel compassion for this woman and her family, yet she is far from > alone in her horrible circumstances – not with 50 million uninsured > Americans and that number still growing. > > I don’t feel that the issues of medical care are off topic for this > forum. They affect every one of us. As a statistical economic > group, we’re not at the top of the food chain. These days, many of > us do not have health insurance because we simply cannot afford it, > period. Along with so many other Americans. Or we are dramatically > underinsured, which is also another path to financial ruin. > > I do have very strong opinions about the politics of all this, but I > am withholding them. I look at the plight of this poor woman and > her family and say to myself, “There but for fortune go I.” > > Will Truitt > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of tnrwim at aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:43 AM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemma > with pitch raises > > > We’re on a pretty different page about this and I’m not into the > conspiracy theory aspect but it’s not probably meant for this > forum. We all operate with the intention of staying out of the > hospital. Sadly it doesn’t always work out that way and I have a > couple of family members who are a testament to that and the > associated costs that they would be saddled with had they not had > insurance. And yes, they are now well thanks to doctors and “Big > Pharma”. All I can say is good health and good luck but I’m keeping > my health insurance. > > David Love > David > > I think you might be missing the point of Susan's rant. Although > Susan didn't have it, we all do need insurance. My wife broke her > ankle a year ago, and even though she had some limited insurance, we > wound up paying almost $20,000 out of pocket, out of a nearly > $40,000 bill. > > What Susan is right about, however, is that medicine, which used to > be basically no-profit, is now become a corporate giant, which only > cares about profits, and not the heath of our population. Doctors > are forced, by the HMO's they belong to, to order test after test, > most of which are unnecessary, not because there might be something > wrong with you, but because the HMO is covering their backsides, to > protect them against lawsuits. They order the tests because there is > money to be made by them, which makes the HMO's bottom line look > better. The tests, in turn, are charged to the insurance company > which then raises rates to cover the expense. And round and round it > goes. Now the government want to get involved, which means our taxes > are going up. All because of the greed of the HMO's, Big Pharma, and > Insurance companies. > > Yes, there are some very good thing happening in medicine, but don't > get me started about some of the meds that are absolutely useless, > and/or dangerous. Just listen to all the "side effects" of some of > the med commercials. These aren't "side effects". In most cases, > these meds are causing more harm than good. > > This might not be directly related to piano work, but in a sense, it > is related to how much we make tuning pianos. When insurance rates > go up, we have to charge more to tune pianos. But when we charge > more, customers are reluctant to get their pianos tuned, which > reduces our income. > This is why it is imperative for us to stay healthy, and vote for > the candidates who will work to reduce our health costs. > > end of rant. > > Wim > -----Original Message----- > From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> > To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org> > Sent: Sun, Oct 31, 2010 5:59 pm > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemma > with pitch raises > > We’re on a pretty different page about this and I’m not into the > conspiracy theory aspect but it’s not probably meant for this > forum. We all operate with the intention of staying out of the > hospital. Sadly it doesn’t always work out that way and I have a > couple of family members who are a testament to that and the > associated costs that they would be saddled with had they not had > insurance. And yes, they are now well thanks to doctors and “Big > Pharma”. All I can say is good health and good luck but I’m keeping > my health insurance. > > David Love > www.davidlovepianos.com > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of Susan Kline > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 8:42 PM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was: billing dilemma > with pitch raises > > On 10/31/2010 7:22 PM, David Love wrote: > Health insurance is expensive but getting out of a hospital stay > with only a $30,000 bill is cheap. It could easily be in the > $100,000s plus. You insure against catastrophe. > > Warning: RANT in progress: > > David, this is true, as far as it goes. However, the very act of > insuring changes the medical system, and not just the fee structure > either. The kind of medicine practiced changes, especially once > legal defensibility, peer pressure among doctors, and the pressure > of Big Pharma get scaled in. What costs the most is what you end up > with. So, not enough "primary care physicians" and more and more > specialists. Research only gets funded if it leads to more expensive > and more chronic pharmaceutical use. Very useful low cost treatments > and protocols have no defenders, because no one will get rich from > them. Whoever stands up for them will get bashed about by those who > make a lot of money from the lucrative alternatives. In the end > (and we're nearly there) society ends up with a system so expensive > and dysfunctional that most of the time people would be better off > if it didn't even exist. > > Statins, for instance, a big money maker based on the total myth > that cholesterol causes heart disease, which has been disproven for > decades. (If one had to pick a single cause of heart disease, it > would be FRUCTOSE.) Statins are medically dangerous, ineffective for > their announced purpose, and expensive. Lipitor is the #1 prescribed > drug in America (if I remember what I read correctly) and it is > medically useless and harmful for all but the tiny fraction of the > public who have hereditary super-high cholesterol. > > On the neurology site I found, the one with a very effective "nerve > support formula" for myelin problems (which were what I had), a > whole section of the testimonial page was filled by people who got > neuropathy only from taking statins. They go to neurologists, who > only give them painkillers like gabapentin, with a zillion side > effects, which do nothing to heal nerves, but the d ocs leave them > on the statins causing their nerve damage. Meanwhile, the website is > selling a formula containing benfotiamine (a form of Vitamin B-1 > known for lessening the pain of neuropathy), and methyl B12 (a > highly absorbable form of Vitamin B-12, also very helpful for > myelin.) It really does work. The pain in my hands lessened > noticeably within a couple days of starting it. It works by speeding > healing, not by covering up pain. So why don't the doctors give it > to their patients? The only reason I can imagine is that Big Pharma > would be very annoyed. You'd be interfering with their billions in > profits. Some of the patients would get away, instead of taking > ineffective painkillers (the analgesia wears off with repeated use) > the rest of their miserable lives. > > Well, this is a piano list .... but I was very lucky that I had the > money to pay off that bill, and my local hospital is a _good_ > hospital, a teaching hospital which is well-run, and non-profit. > What goin g to a bad hospital would be like makes me shudder. > > In the end, with both insurance and government welfare blunting the > feedback on costs, and so many people getting wealthy off the > medical system and its associated industries, and government > subsidizing high fructose corn syrup which gives millions of people > diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and obesity, there is no insuring > against catastrophe. There is not money enough on earth to keep this > whole ramshackle calamity we call "medical care" from breaking down. > > I turn 65 next year. I'll do my level best never to give Medicare > anything to pay for. I think that doing one's best to avoid needing > medical treatment is a social duty, and also a form of self- > preservation. It's not like most of the common treatments WORK. My > particular treatment (immunoglobulins to stop the advance of > Guillain Barre Syndrome) did work, and was needed and appropriate. > So I was glad it was there. > > Susan > > From: Susan Kline <skline at peak.org> > Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org > Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 19:00:37 -0700 > To: <pianotech at ptg.org> > ReplyTo: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] billing dilemma with pitch raises > > Hi, Jer > > A friend told me it was as if my life had pressed a great big RESET > button. You know how some weeks you get so tired, and say to > yourself, "if only I could take six months off!" (Beware what you > ask for ...) I now feel lucky it was only five months, and it did do > a good number on the chronic fatigue, just staying home. Double > vision for five weeks was quite galling. > > $1,000 a year doesn't even get you in the door when it comes to > medical insurance. I investigated it in 1981, when I had come back > to the US from Canada. I was appalled. They wanted more for a month > of insurance than I expected to pay for normal medical care in > several years. I was broke. I just "said no." I'm sure it's only > gotten worse since. > > I don't think I made a conscious decision about "full service" > tuning (at least in a minor version.) It just seemed the natural > thing to do. I ha ted seeing something wrong and just LEAVING it. > > Susan > > On 10/31/2010 6:30 PM, Gerald Groot wrote: > I’m sorry to hear about your crisis. That really sucks. > > Spending what we do spend on health insurance, you are quite correct > when you say you could buy a whole lot of health insurance for that > but, on the other hand If we were to spend say about $10,000 a year > or so with deductibles or more, in 10 years, that’s an easy > $100,000. In that regard, you’re ahead of the game there. > > Thanks for the conversation. I enjoyed it. I do find the idea of > full service quite interesting and have an open mind to it, believe > it or not. J > > Jer > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of Susan Kline > Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2010 9:14 PM > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [pianotech] billing dilemma with pitch raises > > On 10/31/2010 5:15 PM, Gerald Groot wrote: > We have phone’s, insurance, business insurance, health insurance, > life insurance, some even carry ear insurance or hand insurance. > > We would have phones anyway. > > Not all of us have all that insurance. I, for instance, carry home > owners insurance and car insurance, and that's it. > > I admit people with a family would worry without life insurance, and > maybe some kind of disability or health insurance. I think that > unless they are very anxious types, most single people are better > off without most of those other insurances: the tool insurance, > (HAND insurance??), liability insurance (which just makes your > pockets deep enough for someone to want to sue you). > > I went 30 years without health insurance, ever since coming home > from Canada. And last spring I became the poster child for what can > happen as an uninsured person gets older. Here I am, aged 64, and I > had a medical crisis and a hospital stay last May, and found myself > with a hospital bill for $30,500 (after negotiations.) Plus other do > ctor bills. Okay ... my gosh, how could she do without the > insurance?? Well, first, if you prorate my hospital bill for thirty > years, you end up with about $1,000 per year -- you couldn't buy a > whole lot of health insurance for that. Second, these days if you > have been a good and faithful customer for years, paying premiums > the whole time, and you suddenly have a major medical cost, the > companies have whole rooms full of people whose only job is to go > through your history with a fine tooth comb, to find an excuse not > to pay. Now, there is overhead for you -- pay the insurance (at what > I think are exorbitant rates) and THEN pay the medical costs > yourself anyway, plus maybe some legal costs trying to collect. > > To sum up again -- I think a very important skill for a person in > business is to keep overhead to the bare minimum. I don't remember > Jer mentioning advertising, but that's another one which I think > most really good piano techs should do without. Word of mout h does > it all so much better, and is scot free. > > Susan Kline > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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