[pianotech] unusual lyre joint

[Dean May]

I've seen this feature many times, seems like always on older Kimballs. It
works really well and sure makes for a quick and easy way to pull the lyre.
I don't recall ever seeing any keeper mechanism to retain the pins. The
tapered fit is more than adequate to hold the pins in place. 

Dean

Dean W May (812) 235-5272 voice and text

PianoRebuilders.com (888) DEAN-MAY

Terre Haute IN 47802

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Stocker
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:19 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] unusual lyre joint

Um, it's been a while. Braces are vital for any lyre, particularly so for 
these.  I seem to remember some leather loops on one piano to keep the pegs 
from getting lost or loose, and I have vague memories of a screw or 
secondary peg to keep them from working loose.

I'm sure it will come back to me in stunning detail once you have already 
figured it out.

Think like an old style cabinetmaker. It was logical to someone once.

David Stocker, RPT
Tumwater, WA

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Spalding
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 20:18
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] unusual lyre joint

David,

Thanks for the confirmation.  "Used properly" means what, exactly?  Do
the tapered dowels stay in place on their own once tapped home?  Does it
matter that the post shoulders are not contacting the top block, or does
the system rely on the lyre braces for rigidity?  This piano has the
brass braces which attach with two screws at each end.

thanks

Mike

On 12/12/2011 6:55 PM, David Stocker wrote:
>
> Unlike some of the wimps on these lists, I have moved hundreds of pianos. 
> I have seen this kind of lyre a half-dozen times on very small grands. 
> When used properly, it is a simple and elegant way to remove a pedal lyre.

> Unfortunately, I don't think I've seen a one of them that wasn't goobered 
> up by a mover or DIY. Hopefully, you can get it solid again.
>
>
> David Stocker, RPT
> Tumwater, WA
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Spalding
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 13:39
> To: Pianotech
> Subject: [pianotech] unusual lyre joint
>
> I brought home a Kimball lyre to repair:  loose joints, top and bottom.
> The lower joints (post to pedal box) were more or less conventional
> round tenons, on which the epoxy is currently curing.  The top joint is
> one I've never seen in a piano before.  Did I mention the piano is a
> former player?  Anyway, the post has a square tenon which fits very
> loosely into a 3-sided mortice in the top block, and is secured with a
> tapered dowel.  Well, it was at one time.  The tapered dowels had been
> replaced with steel machine screws, so the whole thing was really
> floppy.  I roughed out a couple of tapered dowels and fitted them in the
> holes, and I'm not satisfied with the way the joint fits together.  The
> main problem is that with the dowels in place, the top block is held
> almost 2mm above the shoulders of the posts.  I'm considering whether to
> plug and re-drill the dowel holes in the posts, or build up the block to
> meet the shoulders.  I'm also considering drilling out the tapered holes
> and using a straight dowel.  Anybody ever seen this joint before?  Any
> insights or free advice?
>
> thanks
>
> Mike