[pianotech] unusual lyre joint

[Mike Spalding]

Isaac Sadigursky had a really clever suggestion for making new pins, for 
those of us who don't have access to a lathe - take a standard 
drumstick, and cut the ball off the end.   The remaining taper is (he 
says) a very close fit.


On 12/13/2011 7:58 AM, Dean May wrote:
> I've seen this feature many times, seems like always on older Kimballs. It
> works really well and sure makes for a quick and easy way to pull the lyre.
> I don't recall ever seeing any keeper mechanism to retain the pins. The
> tapered fit is more than adequate to hold the pins in place.
>
> Dean
>
> Dean W May (812) 235-5272 voice and text
>
> PianoRebuilders.com (888) DEAN-MAY
>
> Terre Haute IN 47802
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
> Of David Stocker
> Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:19 AM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] unusual lyre joint
>
> Um, it's been a while. Braces are vital for any lyre, particularly so for
> these.  I seem to remember some leather loops on one piano to keep the pegs
> from getting lost or loose, and I have vague memories of a screw or
> secondary peg to keep them from working loose.
>
> I'm sure it will come back to me in stunning detail once you have already
> figured it out.
>
> Think like an old style cabinetmaker. It was logical to someone once.
>
> David Stocker, RPT
> Tumwater, WA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Spalding
> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 20:18
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] unusual lyre joint
>
> David,
>
> Thanks for the confirmation.  "Used properly" means what, exactly?  Do
> the tapered dowels stay in place on their own once tapped home?  Does it
> matter that the post shoulders are not contacting the top block, or does
> the system rely on the lyre braces for rigidity?  This piano has the
> brass braces which attach with two screws at each end.
>
> thanks
>
> Mike
>
> On 12/12/2011 6:55 PM, David Stocker wrote:
>> Unlike some of the wimps on these lists, I have moved hundreds of pianos.
>> I have seen this kind of lyre a half-dozen times on very small grands.
>> When used properly, it is a simple and elegant way to remove a pedal lyre.
>> Unfortunately, I don't think I've seen a one of them that wasn't goobered
>> up by a mover or DIY. Hopefully, you can get it solid again.
>>
>>
>> David Stocker, RPT
>> Tumwater, WA
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Spalding
>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 13:39
>> To: Pianotech
>> Subject: [pianotech] unusual lyre joint
>>
>> I brought home a Kimball lyre to repair:  loose joints, top and bottom.
>> The lower joints (post to pedal box) were more or less conventional
>> round tenons, on which the epoxy is currently curing.  The top joint is
>> one I've never seen in a piano before.  Did I mention the piano is a
>> former player?  Anyway, the post has a square tenon which fits very
>> loosely into a 3-sided mortice in the top block, and is secured with a
>> tapered dowel.  Well, it was at one time.  The tapered dowels had been
>> replaced with steel machine screws, so the whole thing was really
>> floppy.  I roughed out a couple of tapered dowels and fitted them in the
>> holes, and I'm not satisfied with the way the joint fits together.  The
>> main problem is that with the dowels in place, the top block is held
>> almost 2mm above the shoulders of the posts.  I'm considering whether to
>> plug and re-drill the dowel holes in the posts, or build up the block to
>> meet the shoulders.  I'm also considering drilling out the tapered holes
>> and using a straight dowel.  Anybody ever seen this joint before?  Any
>> insights or free advice?
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Mike