I for one, get sick and tired of reading the smart a****, demeaning and/or
negative remarks that continually come from certain members about various
topics and now this one and we all know who they are. If you're not happy,
leave! Building an internet for everyone to use, is no easy task! You have
NO IDEA how much time and effort is involved to do something like this. I
appreciate the time and effort that has gone into this for US to use.
Much of the time, the mistakes that ARE being made trying to login 'for
example,' are USER errors. In other words, the person behind the computer
keyboard does not know what to do, so they become frustrated and then
complain instead of learning how to do it or by asking questions to learn
how, as some have done.
Everything we do has some sort of learning curve. Am I enjoying the new
learning curve? Not particularly. At 55 it is harder to learn something
than when I was 25 however, I will learn it just as I have learned the piano
business. It might take me longer but, I will learn it! It takes time and
it takes patience. How would you like to be placed in Allan's place as not
only President of PTG but having to contend with the constant "whining"
about the new website going on in here? FWI? Many of us don't care to read
it either but, what choice do we have? I feel sorry for these people.
I would suggest as has been mentioned already, and obviously ignored by
some, that you set back, relax and watch things progress. The "ticks" will
be worked out. Give these people a break!
I commend everyone for all of the hard work that they have put into setting
up and maintaining the server that WE get to use without lifting a FINGER!
Thanks for everything to everyone involved for the efforts and work that all
of you have done for US in the PTG, mailing list and for this website.
Jer
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Al Guecia/Allied PianoCraft
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 9:36 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Email Lists and Websites
Nice post Paul. I second everything you said.
Allan, none of this is a personal attack. I'm sorry you took it that way.
It's just frustration with the change that we have no control over. If you
want to start a web based list, then fine for those who want to use it, but
keep this one in place.
Al -
High Point, NC
On Mar 9, 2011, at 9:08 AM, Paul McCloud wrote:
On 3/9/2011 3:16 AM, Allan Gilreath, RPT wrote:
List members,
For the last 13 years, I have devoted large portions of my life to serving
those in the Piano Technicians Guild. During that time, I've tried to cover
every post that comes across Pianotech, CAUT or PTG-L (as well as other
duties that had me at least gleaning information from, if not participating
in, every committee list and other lists.) My posts have become rather
infrequent given the other duties at hand but I still considered myself a
participant in the lists. I have nothing but admiration for Jack Reeves who
started the original list at BYU as well as Andy Rudoff and Ron Berry who
have devoted countless hours to keeping these things running. As it is,
these lists will continue at least through this year's Convention in Kansas
City. The new web-based forums will also be in place. What happens after
that is up to the Board of Directors that will then be in place. I say that
not at all flippantly but know that the individuals currently in place, and
any who are likely to find it in their hearts to serve, are quite aware of
everyone's desires. I hope that by that time the obvious answers will be in
place for best serving the membership as a whole.
Much input was sought from numerous individuals around the country, both
list users and those who don't. I personally talked with older technicians,
younger technicians, computer savvy ones as well as those who prefer to
avoid them as much as possible. We even held a session during a class period
at the recent WestPac 1 and I appreciate those who took the time to come and
learn about what could be accomplished while remaining a bit surprised that
some of those who were at the Conference but didn't take time to attend that
session are criticizing on this list.
Many individuals put extensive amounts of energy into developing this
program and it operates on numerous levels. The membership database was at a
point where a decision had to be made. Some parts of our old website worked
wonderfully while a few areas had difficulties. Ron and Andy have both
devoted extensive amounts of time to maintaining what we had but how much do
we have to right to ask of individual volunteers? The approach was developed
to devise a system to utilize technology rather than continuing to
overburden both our volunteers and our staff and it seemed that we could
provide a platform that can grow over time and adapt to a more collaborative
process. After working with the new system a little, I've found it easy to
organize into threads, post files and customize the site to some of my
desires. Is it perfect? Far from it but I knew going in that it would grow,
develop and change over time. There are many aspects to this system and most
are working wonderfully.
PTG Presidents regularly lose sleep over matters concerning the Guild
members whom they serve. I almost didn't go to the Boy Scout meeting last
night, where I also serve as a leader, with so much weighing on my mind.
Admittedly, I was feeling pretty bad that so much effort had been put into a
project and the comments that were coming through from members and even
non-members were quite so cutting of not only the effort but also
individuals. When we have an organization that is member-driven, it seems to
be that it should be based upon member-effort just as much. Obviously, I
have failed with a number of you in letting you realize how much input you
have and how highly I have regarded your opinions, input and expertise. The
only reason I took time out of my schedule to try to answer questions
recently was due to that desire to serve since I'm pretty severely
back-logged in the shop after taking time away from work and family to
attend NAMM, Mid-Year Board meeting and WestPac since the beginning of the
year.
When I arrived at the Scout meeting last night, I was feeling pretty low.
During the course of the evening, I saw realization hit a young man that he
had been bullying. I also learned that one of our boys had tried to commit
suicide because of a terrible family situation. This really put things in
perspective to remind me that there are real things happening far more
important than email rants or any petty problems of my own. I saw those boys
not just pay lip service to the tenets by which they promise to live but
actually try to put them into practice. When one of them let slip an
inappropriate word, the entire Troop did 20 push-ups. My duty and my
privilege is to serve them and to help them grow.
Ironically, I see people write derisively about "those in power" or "the
powers that be." None of the positions in which I've served in PTG have ever
been about that. Personally, I was not at a good point in my life to
sacrifice the time nor was I totally willing. During the time period I
mentioned at the beginning of this message, I started a new business,
welcomed my son into the world, got through some of the worst economic times
in my life and worked on growing a business while serving PTG and trying to
keep my priorities straight on what I needed to do in life.
However, the recent lack of courtesy, respect or kindness have been
overwhelming. Some of the language used has been totally inappropriate and
I'm ashamed to see it on what is supposed to be a professional discussion.
Little <grins> and such don't make up for cutting comments. When comments
such as those that have come across this list occur, they undermine that
fabric of those to or about whom they're directed and also reflect very
poorly on those who make them. The mob mentality that develops sometimes is
a very negative aspect. I'm supposed to have a thick "skin" in doing this
job but this time that has proven insufficient when those whom I have
respected and even thought of as friends act in such a manner. Ironically,
there are people out there who actually think I'm paid to do this. To those
who are considering, or even advocating, boycotts, signing off and such, you
can rest assured that that is never the wish nor the desire of anyone
leading PTG. My fondest hope is that all find what they're looking for.
On this first day of Lent, I'm going to try to follow the advise that was
given to Peter and forgive not seven but seventy times seven since I'm
personally experiencing thoughts that aren't entirely kind. During this
message, the usage of the word "I" occurred much more often than I like to
see in anything from my pen. My apologies go out to anyone not involved for
taking up the bandwidth and my apologies to everyone on the list for a
non-technical post. I'm signing off of all of these lists to get my heart
in the right place regarding serving, leading and growing.
My best to all,
Allan
Allan Gilreath, RPT
Registered Piano Technician
<Mail Attachment.jpeg>
President - Piano Technicians Guild
pres at ptg.org
<http://www.ptg.org/> www.ptg.org
phone - 706 602-7667
Hi, Allan:
I am saddened to hear of your response to the discussion on the new web
based pianotech lists. Posts on a list such as ours can seem cold and
impersonal. Feelings are misunderstood, and somehow the warmth and
comraderie of a personal interaction is lost in and electronic medium such
as this. I can understand from your last post how much pressure you are
under, and believe me there is more than one of us out here that DOES really
appreciate your sacrifice for the Guild. If everything goes smoothly, it's
easy to forget to appreciate how much someone worked to create that
situation. When things are going awry, blame fingers point every which way.
Since you are at the top, unfortunately those fingers point your way.
I've read every post on this topic, and I've not heard of any
intentionally demeaning remarks directed at you on a personal level. The
use of a "grin" or other icon is intended, however imperfectly, to soften
the blow and prevent hard feelings. I'm afraid in this case the "grins"
haven't worked. I can only speak for myself, but I'll bet Fort Knox that
I'm speaking for nearly all of us listers when I say that you have
misunderstood the intent of our comments. They were never meant as a
personal swipe to you, but as a frustration over a situation that none of us
can directly control.
Frustration is a cause of anger. Not being able to control much of the
infrastructure on the list, we rely upon volunteers like Andy Rudoff and the
other administrators to create it and maintain it. So when it isn't working
to "our" satisfaction, we get upset. We had it good, and took it (this
list) for granted. Now that the easier way is being changed, we are upset
and want to keep it the way it was. In a way, we don't really have anything
to say about how the list is administered, because we are out of the loop.
If it is replaced by a different format, there isn't really any way for us
to affect the decision to change it. And so, there is frustration over
this. In the Middle East, the exact same thing is happening. The people
want to control their own destiny and be done with the dictator.
In all this, your extraordinary efforts to revise the list from an email
forum to a web based forum may seem threatened by the response to the
changes. Shall I say, hate the sin, not the sinner? We hate you not, but
the result of your work is not liked. And that is the hard part,
disconnecting our comments from you personally. We appreciate your
efforts, but we would like to have input on the list that many of us use on
a daily basis. If it can't continue in the present form because of the
unweildy nature of it, the herculean efforts needed to keep it going, then
of course something has/had to be done. That is the nature of time, to
break things down. So, in that case, ;you have come up with a plan to
remedy and improve the situation. And that plan has come to fruition in our
new PTG website and email list integration. It is a laudable effort, and
I'm sure everyone involved has spent literally countless hours on it.
Voluntarily, no pay at all. I didn't do it, so I can easily criticize. What
is obtained for free is easily dismissed. The list is free, so I can take
it for granted and make ill comments if I want to. So, we make all kinds of
comments that are full of anger and frustration because what we had taken
for granted has been put in jeopardy. Really, we have not much of a leg to
stand on, as we have no skin in the game. We are participants, but not
controllers.
My hope, from this post, is that you can step back and see from a more
detached viewpoint. None of us would like to hurt you personally. I
challenge anyone on this list to disagree and say we want to attack you on
that level. What we want to do is to improve it, and it seems we are going
to be stuck with something we don't like and no way to affect the outcome.
There are attempts to make suggestions, changes, improvements, etc., that
seem to be ignored. That's what is driving the comments, and they aren't
meant for you personally.
I hope this meets you with the best intentions. You are doing a great
job, even though it seems unappreciated. I hope you can heal the wounds you
are feeling. But know that most of that is coming from how you are reacting
to the comments, and it is not intentional on our part.
Best to you.
Paul McCloud
San Diego
--
PK
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