[pianotech] Steinway parts list

[David Love]

Please, no lectures. I do understand the concept of mark up. I'm just not so sure you need a customer # to buy from them whether that was the original intention or not.
David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com
(sent from bb)

-----Original Message-----
From: Israel Stein <custos3 at comcast.net>
Sender: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 22:04:42 
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Reply-To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Steinway parts list

David,

One needs to have an account with 
Steinway. I remember back eons ago when 
I started my Steinway account, I had to 
submit references from other members of 
the profession, as I had to do with 
other parts suppliers. I don't know that 
they are interested in selling direct to 
the public - and then having to deal 
with all the issues of buyers who don't 
know what they are getting and what to 
do with it. They have enough trouble 
with "technicians"...

In our "business practices" classes at 
NBSS it was taught that you mark up the 
parts - its part of your profit 
structure. Now, you can do it or not in 
your own business - but please don't 
interfere with the ability of other 
practitioners to do so by letting the 
wholesale prices out into the public. If 
you did that with piano or car prices, 
you'd have a whole lot of salespeople 
wishing you all the harm in the world 
(and some of them perhaps even doing 
something about it) - as their 
livelihood depends on markups...

Israel Stein



On 11:59 AM, David Love wrote:
>
> Maybe the better question is whether 
> it really is a wholesale price list.  
> I'm not clear that one has to prove 
> anything to Steinway in order to buy 
> things from them at these prices, 
> maybe I'm wrong.  Other vendors 
> clearly differentiate between 
> wholesale and retail prices on the 
> price lists they provide to 
> resellers.  The Steinway pricelist 
> makes no such distinction.
>
> David Love
>
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
> *From:*pianotech-bounces at ptg.org 
> [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] *On 
> Behalf Of *Israel Stein
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:15 PM
> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org
> *Cc:* David Boyce
> *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] Steinway 
> parts list
>
> David and all,
>
> The technicalities of copyright law 
> are not the issue here. The issue here 
> is commonly accepted  business 
> practice. It is not in the best 
> interest of business people who want 
> to make a profit on the sale of a 
> product to publicize wholesale prices. 
> It puts them at a disadvantage when 
> involved in price negotiations with a 
> prospective client. Someone who 
> presents himself as an "expert" on 
> business practice and publishes a book 
> on the subject ought to know that. You 
> simply don't send out wholesale prices 
> in a public medium - period. And 
> anyone who doesn't understand that 
> ought to hang his head in shame. And 
> the more this person keeps arguing 
> about it, the less believable all his 
> claims to alleged expertise in 
> anything become.
>
> Israel Stein
>
>
>
> On 11:59 AM, David Boyce wrote:
>
> Indeed. Copyright is not something 
> that you have to DO. It is something 
> that automatically IS.  It is a right 
> that exists as soon as you produce an 
> original work.
>
> What would be copyright about a price 
> list, however, is the TYPOGRAPHICAL 
> ARRANGEMENT of the prices into a list. 
> The information or fact that a 
> particular part costs a particular 
> price, is not copyright. There is no 
> copyright in facts or ideas; only in 
> original WORKS produced using skill 
> and judgement.
>
> It is the same with the piano numbers 
> books like Pierce, as we discussed on 
> here a couple of years ago.  It would 
> break copyright law to scan and 
> reproduce a page of Pierce. But it 
> would not breach copyright to use the 
> piano numbers listed in it, in some 
> other context (however much the 
> publishers might care to suggest 
> otherwise!).
>
> The information that a given flange 
> costs a given price, does not 
> constitute a WORK.  The typographical 
> arrangement of prices for all parts 
> into a list, does constitute a WORK. 
> Therefore, copying and reproducing the 
> list, or work, is a breach of 
> copyright. Distributing the 
> information IN the list, in some other 
> form, is not.
>
> More pertinent here, though, is the 
> aspect of business confidentiality and 
> business relationships.
>
> End of pedantic rant.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Boyce.
>
>
>
> It does not have to show specific 
> copyright information. It is 
> copyrighted material by virtue of its 
> having been written. (See pg. 3 of the 
> attached "Copyright Basics.") Like it 
> or not, Steinway's price list is 
> copyrighted and the copyright is owned 
> by its creator or by the entity paying 
> for its creation; in this case 
> Steinway & Sons. To reproduce it or to 
> distribute it without their permission 
> is a violation of copyright law.
>
> Now, Steinway may or may not care if 
> you distribute their document without 
> checking with them first---I have no 
> idea what their position might 
> be---but that is their decision to 
> make; not ours.
>
> ddf
>


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