List: If I may be so bold, would it not be possible for PTG to set up a PayPal account for the express purpose of paying dues? It has been my experience that setting up such an account is relatively easy and even easier to use. This account would, by necessity, be outside of the current HL software but it would offer all PTG members an easy and reliable way to pay their dues. It’s something to think about. Tom Rhea Piano Service Tom Rhea, Jr., Technician (757) 373-0284 rheapiano at cox.net www.rheapiano.com _____ From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Encore Pianos Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 12:49 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] dues payment fiasco The absence of me is not the problem, nor is my earlier venting of frustration at having to work so hard to do such a simple (and necessary) thing as paying my dues online. I should be able to do that simply and reliably – after all, that is why it is there for me and others. Other than that, I do not understand what you are trying to communicate here, honestly. And why has this discussion turned to talking about me rather than the unresolved problems? I’m not the important issue here, the dysfunctional software and lack of solutions are. Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Skolnik Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:44 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] dues payment fiasco I know five, no, three people who might dispute both adjectives, but panderers are some of my favorite people. To wit: for you to say "there is a lack of will" might be taken as a secret sign that you believe that the absence of you - Will- is the problem, thus, his suggestion. Not likely. But, given the opportunity to opt for a more constructive channeling of your rage, I still think it best to challenge the system by employing it, to the extreme. Think: Americans for a Better Tomorrow, Tomorrow David Skolnik At 10:25 AM 2/1/2012, you wrote: David, no ire to you, you did not create the problem. I take you to be a serious and thoughtful person. I saw no levity in Wim’s response and still don’t believe that it was intended that way. Which is why I called him on it. But I am not mad at Wim or anybody, including our President. I am deeply disappointed that we do not seem to be moving towards solutions that fix our problems, and that there is a lack of will to get us there. Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org <mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org> ] On Behalf Of David Skolnik Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:07 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] dues payment fiasco At the risk of attracting some of Encore's residual ire, I'll suggest that, just possibly, Wimmy's intent, even if unsuccessful, was, like my own: to lighten it up, just a bit. I amused myself by assuming the persona of someone whose most significant response to his genuine expression of exasperation and anger was that he said 'shit'? If, in fact, Wimster was serious, I'll go back and hide. Except, one more thing. By allowing the criticism of the HL web-forum model to veer into a discussion of PTG politics, which is the effect of Wim's comments, we again ignore what had been an accepted parameter of this list. I know it's been violated a lot recently, but I think people should try harder. Will's original comment deserved to be heard by this group, but the further discussion of the organizational ramifications ought to go to PTG-L. Don't y'all understand - you ptg members that are not accessing that list, that your voice there has a much greater impact on this issue? Be clear. I'm not saying that the HL solution is a solution, but every ptg member has access to that list, and they need to hear from you there. I'm suggesting that anyone who has trouble accessing the site should ask for help. Here, or call the home office 913-432-9975 or to to http://my.ptg.org/PTG/Home/ or http://www.ptg.org/ David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 06:14 AM 2/1/2012, you wrote: Wow, Wim, you are on the nominating committee. That means you are in a position to potentially affect the resolution of these issues past the present administration, which is meaningful since it is unlikely that anything will get done while we have the present officers. Your comment to me is interesting. You throw it back at me as if I am a whiner and complainer simply because it was almost impossible for me to do one of the most important functions of our organization – paying dues – and that despite the fact that the he software barely functions even when all my information was entered correctly. I see where your values lie – completely ignore the problems by (shooting, dissing) the messenger. Should I take that to mean that you simply don’t ¢t care whether the software functions well, since you make no mention of the problems? Your requirement that anyone who complains has to be nominated for President is unworkable I think. That would mean that about 1000 people would have their names put into nomination. Nor do you seem to have any interest in my core competencies to be the best person for that job. I submit that merely complaining does not make me or anyone else fit for the job, and you know almost nothing about me otherwise. Your comment is offhand and should not be taken seriously. And you disserve me and others by ignoring the issues even as you are far more in a position to do something about them than I. I think that it is legitimately within your purview to seriously look for someone who can skillfully focus on resolving software issues along with having the other skills required to be President. I am not that person, but you may be able to find someone who is. Most sincerely yours, Will Truitt From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [ mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of tnrwim at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 11:53 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] dues payment fiasco Will I'm on the Nominating Committee. I presume I'll see your name entered as the nominee for President? If not that ambitious, at least RVP? Wim -----Original Message----- From: Encore Pianos < <mailto:encorepianos at metrocast.net> encorepianos at metrocast.net> To: pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org> Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 5:37 pm Subject: [pianotech] dues payment fiasco [] Ok, so I am going to do some venting now. I just spent a frustrating 50 minutes trying to pay my dues, and by some miracle was finally able to actually do so. It only took me about 50 tries to log in, although my username and password information were entered correctly. It simply just kept going around in circles and kept asking me for the same info on the page I started with, again and again and again. Searching for help with this was the same frustrating, counterintuitive, and all but nonexistent effort that it was a year ago – it is still the same broken piece of shit software that it was when they introduced it and nothing meaningful has changed. It still navigates like the software was written by a bunch of 12 year olds during recess – pretzel logic. That this monstrosity continues in its present form is a shining testament to the mediocrity of our leadership, where the only answer to our problems are occasional platitudes and telling us that if we were wise and good people, we would learn to love these shackles. After all, they’re just doing it for our own good. p; I wish that I believed that our present leadership is dealing with the problems with Higher Idiotlogic software in a meaningful manner, or even considers it important to make a serious, ongoing and ultimately constructive effort to resolve the issues, and actually make using it something less excruciating than dragging your fingernails across a chalk board. Nor do I believe they will make the effort to move to something else if the issues cannot be resolved, no matter how inferior the product is. After a year of this, I have lost my faith in them. 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