[pianotech] Thumpe returns... and the shellac on old plates.....

[Encore Pianos]

I can't speak to other people's experience, but years ago I had used a water
based clear lacquer over my gold and had adhesion problems.

Will Truitt

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Douglas Gregg
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:28 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Thumpe returns... and the shellac on old
plates.....

Several suggestions on plate reconditioning.

I agree with Euphonious that plates can be cleaned and come out looking
almost new with the right cleaner. I found that Dow Scrubbing Bubbles
Bathroom aerosol cleaner works wonders and does not require soaking the
plate, pins or soundboard. Also, it has not color dye added so no problem
there. I have used this on every hard surface of a piano and also the felt
with no problem. Not sure about leather and hammers.

 I think I wrote this up before for this forum and have submitted it to
TT&T. The bubbles work very fast and float all the brown stuff off the plate
in seconds. I am pretty sure it is not the shellac but tobacco tar and
nicotine because I can smell it as it comes off. I do use a dusting 4 inch
nylon paint brush and a vacuum before the scrubbing bubbles just to decrease
the volume of grunge to mop up.
this goes for the soundboard too. It is also hard to blow the wet wads of
lint and dirt. This goes for the soundboard too. For the soundboard, it is
better to tip the piano up and use gravity as well as the blower to blow the
bubbles down to a rag at the rim.  You can wipe it up or blow it to a corner
and mop it up. I use a Metro Vac on blower mode and blow the foam to a
convenient corner and have a rag there to absorb it. With the Metro vac
blower, everything comes out nearly dry just like those high powered hand
dryers in the restrooms.

For between the pins, the scrubbing bubbles work best with a 4 inch stiff
nylon cheap paint brush to loosen the dirt. Brush it to the front corner and
blow it into a rag. You will be amazed how well it works. It does not have
enough liquid to soak into the pin block. I am talking about a 30 second
exposure to the bubbles.

I use Sharpie brand black paint markers from Michael's craft store for
lettering. They are toluene solvent based and work well. You can use the
Sharpie paint last to avoid any bleeding. It is glossy.

Otherwise, if you are having trouble with the clear coat taking off your
marker or bleeding it, try a water based clear. I have used System 3 two
part clear marine coat on a couple pianos and it is a nice high gloss
finish. It can be brushed, but spraying is better. It can be thinned a bit
to brush or spray better. Jamestown Marine Supply carries it on line. They
ship very fast. You can still top coat it with a solvent based finish on top
of the water based if you want to but why bother.

Come to my French Polishing seminar in Seattle. That is a Shameless plug.

The Adhesives presentation was scrubbed but will be presented here soon. You
will be surprised at some of the test results comparing adhesives.

Doug Gregg
Classic Piano Doc
Southold, NY


To: Euphonious Thumpe <lclgcnp at yahoo.com>; pianotech <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wed, May 9, 2012 9:43 pm
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Thumpe returns... and the shellac on old
plates.....


Thumpmeister ,
   The man has returned!
How about a bit of shameless marketing with that felt cutter? Show it off
and post a price. This is your target market group.
     Best wishes,
 Tom Driscoll

----- Original Message -----

From:   Euphonious   Thumpe

To: joegarrett at earthlink.net ; pianotech at ptg.org

Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:08   PM

Subject: [pianotech] Thumpe returns...   and the shellac on old plates.....





To Most Esteemed High Captain of Tool Police, De-Luxe:



  Hast been off-list for 2.5 years because yahoo started   bouncing
these posts ( probably because I had about 50,000 emails backed up in  my
inbox) and then the Pianotech server apparently got fed up and
evicted me.   But after I cleared my inbox, repeated entreaties to be
put back   were ignored. ( Because of some personal animosity on the
part of the   then-moderator?) But I tried again last week
and......VOILA! Glad to be   back!!! ( And a
super-extra-special-big-thanx to whomever it is who let me   rejoin!
THANK YOU!!!)



    On to bizness: dab some denatured alcohol   on an old plate and
see what happens. (Only shellac melts with it, as I'm sure   you
know.) Actually, I never did this; but surmised it was shellac because
I   use "Purple Power" (diluted) to clean old plates. ("Super-Clean"
clone--- but   without the lye in it "Super-Clean" now apparently has,
that leaves   a stink behind ---- consider yourself warned!) And
noticed that what came   off LOOKED like old shellac. (Dark orange-
brown stuff, leaving the plate   bright-and-shiny gold colored.) I've
also used such cleaners on old shellac,   and they do, in fact,
dissolve it. (But leave a tinge because of the   purple dye in them,
if used on wood. So am about to try some stuff---   "Spray-66" has
been recommended --- from a restuarant supply store, because it   has
far less dye.) In light concentrations, these concentrated soaps will
just   clean the dirt off old plates. Slightly heavier, they will
remove the   dirt and some of the sh
 ellac. Full strength, they will take everything   off right on down
to the black "Japaning". ( Which I believe is a form of   coal-tar
emulsion, or asphalt.) I also have a very intelligent acquaintance who
agrees with me completely about shellac having been used as the
vehicle   for the bronzing, after coming to the same conclusion
indepoendently. (   And shellac does not get brittle for weeks after
applying.) He says he has had   great results by attempting to
replicate this plate-finishing method,   but I'd like to find a
"modern" substitute that works as well. (So I'm   now off to read the
last week's posts. Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!)



Much Peace,

Euphonious Thumpe



P.S. (By the Grace of God) I've devised a felt cutter that is super-accurate
(to thousandths), quick ( I can cut a set of backchecks
from a   strip in about 3 minutes) and uses replaceable blades. I may
start   producing and selling them, or do it through collaboration
with one of   the supply houses.

P.P.S In my small, low production, one-man shop, I've generally used
Pianotek's spray cans for plate "gilding", but have found DEFT in
spray cans   to be by far the best top coat to use, because it does
not disturb the   bronzing anywhere  nearly as much as all the other
top-coats I've   tried.