Sent from my iPad > >> Not to deliberately belabor this point, but answer me this; OK, no problem >> >> 99.9% of my tunings involve MAJOR pitch raises. With aural tuning ONLY, >> how in the "sam hill" can you do a MAJOR pitch >> raise in less than 2 hours. A major pitch change aurally of 20 to 100 cents takes me 20 min. With experience view learned how much to over pull...gets pretty close. Followed by a 45 min regular tuning from scratch. Total 1hour and 5 min. And it's good. As for How.......practice. But the machine is better for a major pitch raise.....one pass 45min 10 min to 15 min touch up. But, I still agree the machine is superior for a major pitch raise. 95% of my clients are repeat clients though, and the pitch is most Often very very close unless there are environmental challenges. >> >> Now let's see - that involves setting the temperament, PRESUMABLY, at the >> same time, calculating stretch, tuning each >> note, tuning the unisons, etc Oh, yeah, do your "precious" aural tuning >> checks, but, wait, the piano is constantly >> moving because it was so out-of-tune, but some how you are still supposed >> to do them, how I will never know. Starting >> from the middle, tune up and tune down AND with the piano still moving >> along the way. So now you some sort of BASE >> tuning, so now you have to go back and "tweak" BUT, again, the piano is >> still moving, so you have to, maybe, tweak again >> and again and again, etc. Have I forgotten anything >> >> Now, with an ETD (like, Cybertuner (because that is what I have)), you >> capture the "starting" point of the piano with >> all the A's; IT calculates the proper pitch of the note where it is >> supposed to be - factoring in, automajically, the >> stretch and you tune from note 1 to note 88. Now, do some MINOR checking, >> which you MIGHT need to make some MINOR >> tweaking. And, now you are DONE. >> >> Stepping back out of your CURRENT life and as a NEW tech coming into the >> business, you would pick the ETD route. So did >> I, like millions of other techs. >> >> So there - "put that in you pipe and smoke it" >> ????? Why contentious language. I am not downplaying the merits of a machine at all, wonderful tools now. They do fantastic pitch raises, yes. I agree. My only point was that aural tests have value to learn. The people giving the Exams care. It is adds value, added skill, and it's a beautiful thing. Also that the exams are not like using a slide ruler and pencil, much of The exam can be done with a machine. My points are valid, and responses Are not addressing, or questioning the positive points I am attempting to make. As a musician and artist I for one wish to embrace it all, and encourage Others to do the same. If you ever come to a convention Im at, I'll by you lunch and we can have a friendly Encouraging chat. PS. I like that your reproducing player roll copies, and am referring some clients To your site. Love to talk players with you some day as well........ Cheers Dave Renaud >> Duaine >> >> On 05/10/2012 07:57 AM, David Renaud wrote: >>> I did not at all suggest I had an engineering degree, I have a music >>> degree. >>> >>> I was addressing the comment previously made by someone else suggesting >>> that having to take today's tuning Test was >>> like asking to take an engineering exam with only a slide rule and >>> pencil. >>> >>> My hope was to point out that the apology is not good because: >>> >>> 1)Indeed, you actually can use technology for large parts of the tuning >>> exam. >>> >>> 2) The aural part is primary to demonstrate that a candidate actually >>> does know some aural test. >>> In this interest, The margins of error are very larg, and this part is >>> not to produce a concert level tuning at all, >>> but a minimal standard. Most of the people I have seen fail this part >>> knew practically no aural checks tests >>> whatsoever. Forget executing tests well ,the problem was so many do not >>> have the information at all. It is a test of >>> demonstrating a minimal knowledge of aural tests. >>> >>> 3) the exam process does have a written part before qualifying to take >>> the tuning exam. As you suggest should be, is >>> indeed, Questions Regarding partial, harmonics, and stretch are part of >>> the written exam. >>> >>> So my point was only that the analogy with the slide rule is not >>> valid. And my discussion was intended to point >>> out that a fair comparison would be an exam where the candidate would be >>> Expected at some point in the exam to demonstrate some minimal manual >>> mental calculations and knowledge without >>> referring to the computer/devise. In my opinion the aural component >>> of the tuning tests does this minimal >>> demonstration of aural testing knowledge for it has generous margins of >>> error, and anyone with basic knowledge and >>> practice of a 3 or 4 Interval tests can achieve passing at the 80% >>> level. The problem I have seen so often in the exam >>> room with the aural part is mostly lack of knowledge of any aural >>> tests. It is indeed a demonstration of a minimal >>> standard, not concert tuning. >>> >>> I have mentored enough experienced tuners through assimilating >>> basic aural skills to have an opinion. ALL of them >>> say it opened up a whole new world to them. All of them appreciated and >>> valued the added techniques. You do know that >>> none of the examiners get remuneration for the >>> Hundreds of hours they have spent training for and being in the exam >>> room? To give that much >>> Free time you have to have a spirit that really desires to give back. >>> These people want others to succeed, and have >>> put their time and money behind their words giving thousands of dollars >>> worth of time because they do care. One CTE I >>> respect very much asked me once."if we will not preserve Something of >>> the aural tradition, who will? " >>> There is value there. There are people that care and give >>> there. The aural part >>> Deserves respect. >>> >>> Cheers >>> Dave Renaud >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Duaine Hechler >> Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ >> Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding >> Reed Organ Society Member >> Florissant, MO 63034 >> (314) 838-5587 >> dahechler at att.net >> www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com >> -- >> Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years >> >> > >
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