Mark,
I appreciate the time and effort you took to respond. It seems
that we are on the same page. I have great respect for your balanced and
careful approach to how you serve all of your customers. I agree with your
approach wholeheartedly mainly because you take the time to include the
customer in the loop of your decision. The thought of making any decision
of this kind without the input of those using the instrument is what has
always rubbed me the wrong way. Kudos to you!
Greg Newell
At 11:44 AM 8/29/2002, you wrote:
>thanks Greg,
>
>I will qualify; my comments regarding pitch floating refer primarily to two
>pianos, in one room, over one season:
>
>School pretty much shuts down here mid-April which means only 'demand
>tunings' on a handful of instruments, while maintenance priority shifts to
>rebuilding.
>
>Pianos in the recital hall (the ONLY room w/o Dampp-Chasers)will climb over
>summer to a max. of 442. Usage of the hall over summer is sparse and
>informal. I respond to EVERY request (such as the piano/violin recording
>last week) for piano use/tuning with a query as to whether A:442 will work,
>or the piano must be at A:440. If 440 is requested, it will certainly be
>provided, and cheerfully, afterall that's what we do.
>
>However, if possible in the fall I try to wait out the 'natural' pitch
>correction, watching the concert schedule and consulting with performers.
>This isn't difficult, I work with very talented, but rational and
>appreciative people. Generally by the end of September we are "locked" in at
>440, and I haven't had to "waken the sleeping giant." (pardon me as I leave
>the sailing metaphor behind)
>
>BTW, if I gave the impression Greg that I am an A:440 scofflaw, I will
>correct that right away. The two institutions I serve (Brandon University
>and the Banff Centre for the Arts, in the Canadian Rockies) both adhere
>strictly to A:440 standard pitch. No floating pitch at Banff, on any piano
>at any time (Denis maintains a very high standard). One piano here at B.U.;
>an S&S square piano tuned at 435 for novelty.
>
>This week Terry Beckingham and Stan Kroeker,RPT will come to B.U. and tune
>52 of our 65 pianos. They both use RCT and do very precise work, multiple
>passes WHENEVER required, but always to A:440. The difference in the last
>few years, is that instead of dropping pitch 30-40cts now, then raising
>20cts in Nov., etc., is that Dampp-Chasers and backcovers now mean they will
>only have to correct pitch by 4 or 5 cts. Now if there's two respected
>technicians that can rightly sing Dampp-Chaser's praise, these are the guys!
>
>In the last year of private work I can only think of 2 clients whom out of
>necessity I tuned for at a pitch other than A:440. The reason I remember
>them, is I hate doing this, it feels incomplete. Ever since learning to set
>A4 using the F2 check, then later incorporating a VTD, I've taken great
>pride in writing "tuned to EXACTLY A:440 standard pitch" on my invoice.
>
>Now having said all that, I do believe in the necessity and benefit of
>floating pitch in certain circumstance, and agree with others that believe
>the same. However, it must be with a thorough understanding of the
>situation, and I respect every skilled technician as being the best
>qualified to know when this is appropriate.
>
>Finally Greg, I don't think anyone would want you to compromise your high
>standards, they certainly won't change mine. This discussion is good though,
>I'm encouraged and relieved to find many of our colleagues doing the same
>things for the same reasons.
>
>best regards,
>Mark Cramer,
>Brandon University
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-caut@ptg.org [mailto:owner-caut@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Greg
>Newell
>Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:01 PM
>To: caut@ptg.org
>Subject: RE: Floating pitch -- & ear plugs
>
>
>Mark,
> Do you then float up or down within this 4-5 cent window? If so
>why? Do you really find that the piano is unstable when correcting for this
>minor amount? What if the orchestra is also using some other fixed pitch
>instrument? What if you really don't know how the piano will be used? or
>with what other instrument? String segments and wire tension
>notwithstanding the judgement call being made is that it's not important to
>maintain standard pitch? is this the call your comfortable deciding for
>yourself?
>
>respectfully,
>
>Greg Newell
>
>
>At 06:30 PM 8/28/2002, you wrote:
> >In leveling, seating and straightening of strings, I try to have the piano
> >(as I understand most of you do) at pitch. i.e.: settle the coils, re-tune
> >to A:440, seat at the bridge, re-tune to A:440, lift at the agraffes,
> >re-tune to A:440, etc.
> >
> >The rational for this (I believe) is to have all the string segments
>bearing
> >or terminating their very best, when the piano is at pitch. And this is
> >where it gets a bit murky,.. or not.
> >
> >I guess it depends on your mental image of what happens to the string
> >segments during a (climate-induced) pitch change. I see the strings as
> >changing tension 'most' along the speaking length rather than at my
> >carefully straightened little segments at the capo, around the hitch-pins,
> >etc.
> >
> >This comfortable delusion permits me to see things as returning pretty much
> >to normal, after permitting a minor "pitch float." Whereas lowering or
> >raising string tension, in reaction to (climactic) pitch change, presents
> >the picture of hauling string hand-over-fist, through every termination and
> >bearing point,... then, back again kinks and all, in the other direction a
> >few weeks later. It seems alot like running to the other side of the boat
> >with every wave. (Which presents another picture; summer is almost gone and
> >I haven't had the sailboat out once! :>(
> >
> >In response to Greg, climate control has brought most of our instruments to
> >within a 4 or 5 cent window, which we can easily deal with. I think it is a
> >good idea though to consider what all is going on in the piano when climate
> >moves the pitch, other than just a change in string tension.
> >
> >Mark Cramer,
> >Brandon University
> >
> > BTW, I hope you have all had a nice summer, and wish you well during
> >the fall season!
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-caut@ptg.org [mailto:owner-caut@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Greg
> >Newell
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:30 PM
> >To: caut@ptg.org
> >Subject: Re: Floating pitch -- & ear plugs
> >
> >
> >Otto,
> > First I want to make clear that I'm responding to the thread in
> >general and not just your post. I clearly understand why those who do,
> >float pitch. That having been said I would try all I could to not do it. I
> >can forsee a situation where someone knows the piano has "just been tuned"
> >and yet another instrumentalist who just happens to have good pitch memory
> >(Perfect Pitch) will remark to his or her group that the piano is flat.
> >perhaps even significantly. For those who do float pitch why is it that you
> >can't simply explain to whatever institution that the temperature and
> >humidity fluctuations are simply too great and that Dampp Chasers must be
> >installed to maintain anything resembling correct and stable pitch? Money
> >is always an issue but if we always give them a way out will they not
> >always take it? My two cents.
> >
> >Greg Newell
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 02:57 PM 8/28/2002, you wrote:
> > >Several years ago I tuned for North Park College in Chicago. We had a
> >bunch
> > >of Wurlitzer (Squirrelitzer) studios in the practice rooms of a building
> > >that kept the rain off. The pitch went up & down like a yo-yo on a long
> > >string. Initially, I spent many a day in those concrete cubicles,
> > >de-stabilizing those percussion, stringed instruments. Aug. to Dec.
>could
> > >see a 40 cent pitch drop in certain areas of the scale. While they were
> > >still cantankerous, floating the pitch a reasonable amount preserved my
> > >sanity (such as it is) and the departmental budget.
> > >
> > >On another note:
> > >It was in those bunkers that I learned to tune with ear plugs as well,
> > >though I did quit using them for several years after I left there, for
>fear
> > >that customers might mistrust a piano tuner with ear plugs. In recent
> >years
> > >I have gone back to wearing them, educating my customers of the decibel
> > >levels I generate, & reminding them that one may be a visually-impaired
> > >tuner, but there is not a lot of call for deaf piano tuners. I have
>found
> >I
> > >can concentrate better anyway, since it decreases the db level & cuts out
> > >much of the distracting backgound noise. Some poorly scaled pianos will
>go
> > >muddy in some sections, particularly the upper treble, but you can always
> > >pop them out for the offending note(s) & back in again. I always do a
> >final
> > >check, sans ear plugs, anyway. Good customers understand the rationelle
>&
> > >are supportive. Those who don't can always be referred to the sleazy
> > >"competition". We make our living with our ears -- best preserve them as
> > >long as possible.
> > >
> > >Otto
> > >
> > >Piano Technician
> > >University of Idaho
> > >208-885-7918
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Vanderhoofven" <dkvander@joplin.com>
> > >To: <caut@ptg.org>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 9:16 AM
> > >Subject: Floating pitch
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dear Friends,
> > > >
> > > > In past years I have attempted to tune pianos in the colleges I tune
>for
> > >to
> > > > A-440 each tuning. This has caused me extra work (usually unpaid),
>and
> > > > mental stress.
> > > >
> > > > This year I have floated pitch on every piano I have tuned, and I feel
> >so
> > > > much happier! No one has complained about the pianos being at A-442
>or
> > > > A-443, and the pianos are behaving better. When the temperature is 72
> > > > Fahrenheit, and the relative humidity is 83% indoors in the music
> > >building,
> > > > floating pitch is the only way to go.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to Kent Swafford, I have finally seen the light!
> > > >
> > > > David Vanderhoofven
> > > > Joplin, MO
> > > >
> >
> >Greg Newell
> >mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
>
>Greg Newell
>mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
Greg Newell
mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
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