Steinway "pinning" dilemma

Richard Brekne Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no
Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:15:46 +0200



> Jim Busby wrote:
> 
> Hi Ric,
> 
> 
> 
> That’s what’s perplexing to me; Specs are good, i.e. basically 50DW,
> 20UW,   + /- a gram or 3 graduated heavier from bottom to top.
> Granted, I didn’t check every note on all 8 grands, but they all seem
> in the ballpark.
> 
> 

Would that be 50 DW for the origional pining ? If so, and it goes up to
65-70 DW for the new pinning.. then you have a task in front of you.


> Since this is for a different college I didn’t bring my whole set-up
> (scale, a la Stanwood) to check strike weight and front weight, but
> I’m pretty sure the hammers are too heavy.  It’s like Ed said, it just
> feels jumpy and squirrelly to regulate. (Now there’s some good
> technical lingo…) Next week I’ll bring the works and have better
> numbers to give you.
> 


Jumpy and squirrelly are good words to describe the fly away hammer
syndrome... I think perhaps you may have a problem on your hands :)

RicB 


> 
> Jim Busby
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of
> Richard Brekne
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 5:55 PM
> To: College and University Technicians
> Subject: Re: Steinway "pinning" dilemma
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim Busby wrote:
> 
> > Thanks Ric.
> >
> > Steinway’s standard used to be “less than 4 grams” but seems to have
> > changed. Now it’s not one of grams or swings but “as close to zero
> > friction as possible with no side play.” This seems to be a recent
> > change and I was told that Steinway has some kind of new system to
> > achieve this.
> >
> > I did repin a few and it regulates well, but DW is now about 70.
> > Changing hammer weight (strike weight) and adjusting front weight,
> > etc. will bring it to what I want, but then I’ve changed their
> > design and essentially voided warranty.
> >
> >
> > Woah.... thats pretty heavy... As long as we both speak Stanwood...
> > whats the present specs on that puppy ?
> >
> >
> > You’re right about sound. It does make a difference, and their way
> > seems to sound great. It just seems weird, and against what I’ve
> > heard for years.
> >
> > I’ll try it. I’m fairly opened minded.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> >
> > Jim Busby
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
> > Of Richard Brekne
> > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 1:28 PM
> > To: College and University Technicians
> > Subject: Re: Steinway "pinning" dilemma
> >
> > Jim Busby wrote:
> >
> >> List,
> >>
> >> I am NOT bashing here...I love Steinways, but I have a dilemma.
> >> (BTW, I
> >> just finished prepping and tuning 12 "out of the box" 1098's and
> >> they
> >> are indeed wonderful instruments! None of the former problems.)
> >> (Hurray!)
> >>
> >> Here is a new question concerning pinning on the 8 new grands I
> >> have. (2
> >> D's, 3 B's, 2 M's, and an S.) Hammer flange pinning is around 1-2
> >> grams!
> >> (From 20 to 37 swings) I was ready to repin, since they simply
> >> don't
> >> check without roughing the tails (which I believe shouldn't be the
> >>
> >> solution) Steinway says that they have a new flange design to try
> >> to
> >> "totally", as far as possible, reduce friction there. They
> >> advertise it
> >> as "permafree" (scary) because of the Teflon impregnated into the
> >> bushing cloth. They say that as long as there is no side play 37
> >> swings
> >> is OK. But is it???
> >>
> > Hmm... assuming the hammers follow a solid path towards the string,
> > even in hard play... it should be ok.... aside from the general
> > discussion about whether or not a certain amount of friction is a
> > good thing. That said...  seems like an awwwwwfull lot of swings...
> > 25 +.... hard to imagine thats not because of overly loose pins. I
> > get quite an improvement with useing teflon powder in bushings...
> > and have experienced solid pinning at 12 swings or so on occasion...
> > but thats not any where near what you are describing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You can make the action work by making sure rep. spring is not too
> > strong and by periodically roughing the tails, but conventional
> > wisdom
> > says we need proper friction in the right places to make an action
> > feel
> > and work correctly. Right?? Any thoughts on this?
> >
> > I like a certain amount of friction... 10 grams or so seems very
> > comfortable... but then I'm rather conservative with actions.
> > Friction can serve as a brake... keeps the fly away hammer syndrom
> > from getting to carried away. Tho admitedly... my call on this is
> > pretty subjective in nature.
> >
> >
> > Since they are under warranty I will do as I was taught at Steinway,
> > but
> > my gut feeling is to repin the rail, lighten the hammers, etc. to
> > achieve proper touchweight, and spend the next ten years working on
> > pianos that feel "right" to me.
> >
> > Would be interested in hearing a follow up on these <<permafree>>
> > bushings... what you think of them as you go through changing and
> > servicing them over the next few months.
> >
> >
> > I've consulted with 2 other techs who are top notch by any standard
> > and
> > they totally agree with me. However, two Steinway techs say their
> > system
> > works. How do I justify the two seemingly opposing systems and make
> > the
> > pianos work to my standards without bucking Steinway? Have any of
> > you
> > faced this yet?
> >
> > Steinways official line is that these should exhibit 10 - 35 swings
> > ??... let them go for a while if that be... and see how well they
> > perform... change one or two if you think its the right thing to do
> > and compare. Loose pins cause sloppy sound... weak and falsy... you
> > know it when you hear it.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jim Busby RPT
> > BYU
> >
> > --
> > Richard Brekne
> > RPT, N.P.T.F.
> > UiB, Bergen, Norway
> > mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
> > http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
> > http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
> >
> --
> Richard Brekne
> RPT, N.P.T.F.
> UiB, Bergen, Norway
> mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
> http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
> http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
> 

-- 
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
UiB, Bergen, Norway
mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html

This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC