Before my life as a piano technician I did a fair amount of sound reinforcement work. One of my sons is now full time in this profession and travels coast to coast. His work includes live application such as classical, jazz, country and corporate sound jobs. (By the way, each of those applications may require a different sound. Have you notice that a high end home sound system has different equalization settings for different styles of music that you listen to?) At least once a month I set down with him to get updated on all the newest toys and techniques. I totally agree with the things that have been said by Jeff. I have a few additional observations. Besides placement you also need to be aware that the way the mic is positioned makes a big difference. The sound coming into the side is different from the sound coming straight in. The distance between multiple mics changes the pick-up pattern and characteristics. The make and model is not the whole answer. (Again your individual tastes might drive you decision about what mic to use. I was in a recording studio and was shown a software program that would change how the piano sounded if recorded with different mics.) A good technician can get a pretty good sound out of a lesser expensive mic while a bad technicians can get a real bad sound out of a good mic. I did a piano miking class at a regional conference. I used several mic recordings in various locations in the piano. Without revealing the mic types or makes (some were less than $100, other over $500) or location I played the sample recordings back and ask the participant to say which they thought was the best sound. The results were quite interesting. To confirm what Jeff has said there was not a for sure conclusion. The best advise I heard was from an award winning recording engineer was to put your ear up to what ever you are working with. When you find the sound you want, put the mic there. The means almost crawling in, out and around the piano and listening at the spot you think might be best. A variation is to have someone play the piano you are working with and have someone move the mic around inside and out, above and below, lid down and lid up while you listen out front in the hall. When find the sweet spot you want, mic it. Be aware the hall will also have sweet spot. Just because it sounds good in seat K45 it doesn't mean it will be the same in seat K47. And the hall will change when people fill the seats, the temperature changes and other conditions vary. The same things that affect the piano's natural sound will also change the halls sound. Keep in mind the sound man has at his finger tips a verity of toys to play with that will undo all you have done to make the piano sound right. For starters, he has equalizers the can change the tone at every third octave of the pianos sound. On new digital mixers he can do that with every single mic. He can change the fundamental and partials and he can do it with the twist of a knob without a needle! Thanks Jeff for saving me from having to go into details. You covered a lot of ground. There are no simple answers. Sound reinforcement is as complicated as piano technology. A piano technician is a lucky man indeed when there is a good sound technician at the mixing board taking care of your piano. I have thought it would be great to have a "how to mic a piano" class taught at annual convention. Keith Kopp, Brigham Young University -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tanner Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:29 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Miking pianos On Nov 30, 2005, at 1:39 PM, Alan McCoy wrote: > Is there anyone who has some expertise in setting up pianos for > concert amplification? What I'm looking for is some nitty gritty > details so > if need be I can do it myself. > > Like I said, the last straw! > I forwarded your question to our recording engineer. Though very much a novice (particularly in regard to high end equipment), this subject is a bit of a hobby of mine, and I started to post my own ideas, but decided to wait until I got his response. Turns out, we had very similar ideas. After his comments (between the quotation marks), I will paste what I'd written. "If you ask 50 engineers how to mike a piano, you'll get at least 493 answers! In live amplification situations, everything is a compromise. The piano doesn't develop its natural, full, blended sound until you are a few feet away.Unfortunately, that is a worthless location with respect to gain before feedback (GBF). In order to actually amplify the piano without feedback or too much bleed from other instruments, the mics need to be close, often extremely close. This is affected by sooooooo many variables, from the piano and its setup, the mic choice and its directional pattern, mic placement, position of lid, how much reinforcement is needed, the volume of the piano and other instruments, PA and monitor location and level, hall acoustics, etc. So the engineer has to pick which portion of the sound he wants to amplify, he can't get them all. It is common to choose the bright attack portion of the sound near the hammers, since this will cut thru a mix. A little of it in the PA system will give the impression of piano without muddying up everything else. This is especially common in big band, where you need lots of amplification to compete. It is a choice between hearing an unnatural 'banjo' piano sound, or having a natural piano sound and not hearing it at all! (BTW, It may be that the 'banjo' sound came from a piano pickup, rather than microphones. These are great for GBF, but are very unnatural sounding.) Suggestions for more natural sound: -Get the piano to be heard more acoustically by positioning, opening the lid, and having everyone else play less -reduce bleed into piano by placement on stage, possible use of gobos, and having everyone else play less -use at least 2 high quality directional condenser mics, placed behind and above the hammers, facing toward the hammers. Maybe a foot above the strings and a foot back. Spaced to split the range of the piano into thirds. -carefully EQ piano mics for natural sound and nearby monitors for maximum GBF -pray There is no formula. Hope this helps, JF" This was my post: All kinds of sounds are available through micing, and the sound you get totally depends on placement. But mic placement for amplification is a completely different animal from that of recording because of the feedback factor. I tuned for Livingston Taylor several years ago and he was quite adamant about a three mic placement very near the strings. Same for Jim Brickman, and seems like Bette Midler's band used a similar arrangement. One near the treble dampers, one near the bass dampers, and the third further back in the midrange. I recently tuned an S&S B (on the bright side) for a Gaither gospel concert in a large venue, but they hadn't placed the mics before I left. I was very curious how that was going to turn out. These were studio mics, but I did a "just for fun" recording of a buddy with his accompanist on her S&S B at her home a few years back with a Shure SM 58 vocal mics and that sound turned out surprisingly full. Not close micing, mind you, but not out past the rim either, and again, this was a recording situation. It can be done, but your sound engineer MUST have an ear for piano. I don't know who it was who got it started a few years ago that the "best" way to mic a piano was from underneath, but I wish that would have never happened. A lot of church music directors heard that myth and decided it was law. That mic placement produces a very dark, muffled sound every time I've ever heard it - probably because they're using a cheap mic and don't have an ear for using an EQ, but I've never really liked that sound at all. That placement may work ok for some recording situations, but it is horrible for amplification IMO. Another part of it can be where you're sitting in relation to the directional throw of the pa speakers. What can sound very full at the mixing board position can sound completely strange in other parts of the room. The type of amplification and speakers used will also put limitations on how the piano can be EQ'd. The room itself, other instrumentation, there are just so many factors... Jeff Tanner _______________________________________________ caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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