Michelle, At 01:41 PM 2/4/2005, you wrote: >:) > >Horace (what a cool name!) Hmmm - well, thanks! (Besides, I am rather stuck with it...) >Anyways- this is a 1967 Steinway D- OK. >which TO MY KNOWLEDGE was overhauled by a Steinway technician in 1989 (!!) This could mean many things. > with new parts and restrung. Ditto. >Not sure if it got a new pinblock- just bigger pins-I'm 99% sure. That would be most likely. If you have one of those bent tuning pin gauges, you can get a (very) general idea of what you are up against in that department. It was not unusual to find Ds from that period restrung with one size pin (usually 3/0) from the tenor up and a slightly larger size (usually 4/0) in the bass. >(That's another can of worms and each worm has it's own extended family >over for a rowdy card party.) Sounds about right...tuning is loads of fun, too, I imagine. >I have thought in the past that the action had some huge problems because >of the knuckle placement- but up until now it's never really had a >re-regulation until now. (A bit here and there- but never a full on, like >it's needed.- At least since I've been here.) > >So right now before I go ahead and start moving things I want to cross my >"T"'s and dot my "I"'s. I am not sure, but think that if you go back into the pianotech archives, you will find a fairly extended post that I did some time back on forefinishing. While I do not pretend that it is that last/only word on the subject, it will give you some historical background as to how actions were originally fitted (well, ok, within reason) to the keybeds/etc. Starting there will help you to determine what to look for in terms of what might have been done at the factory, and what might have been done during subsequent work. This sounds really elementary, I know, but the time spent figuring out that kind of thing in the beginning will pay dividends as the work progresses. If you cannot find that, I'll see if I cannot dig it up someplace...(hmmmm....I really hope it is in the archives...) In the meantime, you can begin to get a feel for how to proceed with some careful time spent observing the instrument. Get a nice beverage of your choice, a flashlight, maybe a small mirror...then, pull the action and, setting it aside for the moment, just spend some time really looking at the structure in front of you. What looks "new"? "Original?" Changed (in some sense)? Yes, this is also a time for reductive analysis; so measure whatever seems appropriate, remembering that much of what you will be measuring you will not be able to change, but rather will have to work with and around. (Deck height, measured from the floor of the keybed to the underside of the strings at notes 1 and 62 is a popular measurement, as are things like spread, deck height for the whippen and hammer flanges.) Depending on when the work was done, the quality of the parts might vary tremendously - some years/times were pretty good, others were simply awful. Again, these are things that you may not be able to change, so the whole point of this exercise is to gain an overall knowledge of where the instrument is before doing anything. The importance of all this is that, as with any hand-working, things do not necessarily go according to plan. Thus, seeing something that does not seem to make sense in the moment does not mean that there was not some appropriate reason for it to have been done during manufacture. Fixtures and jigs can only do so much. Sooner or later, a person has to make some judgements as to how to arrive at some necessary compromise(s). In S&S instruments, those decisions and those persons have most often, but certainly not exclusively, been in the forefinishing department. At least, 1967 was during a period of (relative) stability in production. Best. Horace >;) >Michelle > >--On Friday, February 4, 2005 1:13 PM -0800 Horace Greeley ><hgreeley@stanford.edu> wrote: > >> >> >>Michelle, >> >>OK - now - you mention that other work has been done. Any idea as to >>when? Range of work that was performed? Also helpful would be to know >>when the instrument was built (goes to the style of forefinishing that >>was being done at the time). >> >>Nothing happens in a vacuum. Before making changes, figure out where >>things might have been originally, then work from there to where things >>are before deciding what changes to make. Remember the rule of 7: at >>each step at which a fault (in this case, potentially a fault in either >>manufacture or remanufacture) is discovered, it takes seven times as much >>effort and energy to make right as it does when the fault is discovered >>at the immediately preceding step. >> >>Best. >> >>Horace >> >> >>At 01:09 PM 2/4/2005, you wrote: >>>The D beast. >>> >>>D as in: >>> >>>darn >>>dingy >>>delapidated >>>decapitated >>>devil >>>dopey >>>doohickey >>> >>>Ooop!! >>> >>>Sorry about that!! >>> >>>:B >>>(Having fun- that's what I'm doing!) >>>Her >>> >>> >>>--On Friday, February 4, 2005 12:46 PM -0800 Horace Greeley >>><hgreeley@stanford.edu> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>Michelle, >>>> >>>>What brand of beast are you discussing? >>>> >>>>Thanks. >>>> >>>>Horace >>>> >>>>At 12:33 PM 2/4/2005, you wrote: >>>>>Thanx David. >>>>> >>>>>I'll look into that some more. >>>>> >>>>>*Everything* was changed on this at some point- new parts too- >>>>>So I was wondering if the key end relation was also a consideration in >>>>>alignment- or another good starting place for bass cleat adjustments. >>>>> >>>>>I feel the wippens and shanks are all shifted to the left- and not many >>>>>wippens are completely under the knuckles. >>>>> >>>>>:o >>>>>M >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>--On Friday, February 4, 2005 12:08 PM -0800 David Ilvedson >>>>><ilvey@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>I would think the first thing to check is how your wippens align under >>>>>>the hammer/shanks & flanges in relation to the strings, i.e. are the >>>>>>shanks going off at an angle to align with strings and thus the >>>>>>wippens not parallel under the knuckle.. I'd be more interested in >>>>>>changing the bass cleat/felt relative to that before concerning >>>>>>myself with how the key ends align with the underlevers...imho >>>>>> >>>>>>To be clear (possibly)....for instance, if moving the entire keyframe >>>>>>towards the bass allowed you to re-align the hammers and get a better >>>>>>centering of the wippens under the knuckle... >>>>>> >>>>>>David I. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>----- Original message ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>From: michelle stranges <stranges@Oswego.EDU> >>>>>>To: caut list <caut@ptg.org> >>>>>>Received: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 14:58:36 -0500 >>>>>>Subject: [CAUT] Key frame placement >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hey boils and goils- >>>>>> >>>>>>>Can I get some feedback on the bast placement of the keys/key ends >>>>>>>and frame under the underlevers in the REST position? (Unshifted..) >>>>>> >>>>>>>I'm deep into getting our concert grand worthy- and want to get the >>>>>>>best placement before I go and move wippens and hammers and bass >>>>>>>cleat felt which are questionable and do a complete regulation.. >>>>>> >>>>>>>For example- should the underlevers be to the right-ish of the key >>>>>>>ends so that when it shifts it's centered? >>>>>>>OR should the underlevers be CENTERED on the key ends so that when it >>>>>>>shifts they'll be on the left-ish.. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>(Not leftist!!) >>>>>> >>>>>>>:) >>>>>>>Stranges in the niiiighhhhtttt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >>_______________________________________________ >>caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > >_______________________________________________ >caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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