[CAUT] Steinway Style II Grand: Liszt/Erard

[Ed Sutton]

Bill-
I agree completely with your comments.  My statement was intentionally kept
to one qualified sentence.  Late pictures of Liszt show him at an upright
piano, and if I remember correctly, a quotation from a student mentions him
playing a movement from a Beethoven sonata at that piano.  I don't know
what to make of that. Liszt was a remarkable man, not easy to pin down.
Ed

> [Original Message]
> From: <Bdshull@aol.com>
> To: <caut@ptg.org ("College and University Technicians")>
> Date: 2/15/2005 9:10:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway Style II Grand:  Liszt/Erard
>
> Being a west coast resident I don't get to travel I95 often, but I don't
forget my 5 hours on I95 in a rented Chevy S10 which had uncomfortable
seats.  The little side jaunts in Conn and Mass were wonderful
diversions....
>
> I'll leave that for what it means to the reader...if anything...but I
have to bite on the comments about Liszt (Ed, I know your comments on Liszt
were qualified and nuanced, but I couldn't resist this anyway).
>
> The question of what the composer would PREFER is interesting, but not
nearly as important as what the composer HAD and USED, that is, what the
composer preferred from the available instruments.  Liszt, the archetypal
19th century progressive, went for the biggest and best machine available.
But he had nearly finished composing by the time the modern piano began its
development in the 1860's.  90% of Liszt's piano repertoire would be best
understood on a reproduction Erard of the mid-19th century.  Unfortunately,
none exist.  So we make do with restored instruments, which at least give
us a cloudy picture.
>
> While Liszt played loud and fast, he played slow and singing, he played
soft and fast...His development of piano technique brought color as a
musical element up to the level of one of the essential elements of music. 
For us to understand the music of Franz Liszt - to understand what he heard
and what his audiences heard - we would need a reproduction Erard.
>
> Unfortunately as instruments became larger they became more expensive. 
Reproductions are more expensive, too;  A reproduction Erard will be
prohibitively expensive until an inspired benefactor commissions several to
be built (why not build more than one, and spread the costs - and the
benefits - out some?). 
>
> Bill Shull 
>
> In a message dated 2/15/2005 3:16:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Ed
Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >It's a fair guess that Chris is correct that Liszt would want the
fastest, loudest piano available, at least if he were playing his virtuoso
show pieces. (And maybe not for other music.)
> >On the other hand, Chopin, Schumann and Brahms would be harder to
predict.  We know that Chopin made peculiar selections of pianos, if loud
and fast are the sole criteria.  Anyone who has played a Viennese action
piano, early or late, knows that these instruments articulate the classical
and romantic repertoire in a way that can't be done on a modern action.
> >I, for one, don't wish to spend all my travels on I-95.
> >ES
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message ----- 
> >From: Don McKechnie 
> >To: caut@ptg.org
> >Sent: 2/15/2005 2:01:36 PM 
> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway Style II Grand
> >
> >
> >Wouldn't it be great to see Chris argue his point with Malcolm Bilson.
Might turn into a slug fest! :-) Having lived here in Ithaca (the land of
historical performance practice) for some time, I find listening to music
performed on historical instruments interesting at least for an academic
standpoint. And, occasionally it is a great musical experience. Cornell has
a couple of pianos from the mid 1800's that sound very good and when played
by a skilled pianist, can be very rewarding to hear. Just my humble opinion.
> >
> >Don
> >
> >
> >
> > I may as well take this opportunity to come out of the closet and
reveal my bias, actually a pet peave, just to be fair. In case anyone
wasn't catching the drift, I have almost no use for historical instruments.
I can't imagine any musician of the day, say Franz Liszt, looking for "the
good old piano." Most often professional pianists, unless they are looking
for novelty, or are overcome with this absurd nostalgia for "original
instruments," look for the best new piano they can find. 'Cause the design
is up to date and the parts are new and it plays like they expect.
Everything else is ANOMALY. And unless your customer is of that ilk I'd
stick to I-95. (I do make one notable exception and that is reproductions.
They make for wonderful "Historical" concerts although I do think the whole
concept is a bit hysterical). Of course Stephen, be attentive to what Bill
Shull and others are warning of cause this isn't I-95, but get as close as
you can and a "NORMAL" customer will be !
> h!
> >appy. And BTW, sorry Bill, we're full at MARC and printed for this year,
but I have forwarded your shameless self invitation to Steve and Paul and
will put in a good word for you.
> >Best to All,
> > Chris Solliday  
> >
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