Bill-
Or maybe hard-of-hearing, and could hear the upright better? Or just too
tired to go to the next room? The reminiscence mentioned he was too tired
to finish the sonata.
After reading your prior post, I took a read through "Consolations." I'm
seeing these now not as "intermediate pieces," but as "demonstrations of
new color effects and modulations." He really was an amazing man.
No apologies necessary for your post.
Ed
> [Original Message]
> From: <Bdshull@aol.com>
> To: <caut@ptg.org ("College and University Technicians")>
> Date: 2/15/2005 9:56:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway Style II Grand: Liszt/Erard
>
> Hi, Ed,
>
> Please accept my apologies for my misuse/abuse of your reference to Liszt
(what a great thread, huh!)
>
> Liszt absorbed everything; he worshipped Beethoven, played the Sonatas
all the time early on, and considered his formal musical ideas to be rooted
in the progressive ways in which Beethoven structured his own music. An
upright? interesting! This is mere fanciful speculation here, but by the
1860's the piano had evolved to the extent that Beethoven's piano
literature didn't sound like it was breaking the piano (the stress and
tension in Beethoven's music is best understood on period instruments of
his time); could Liszt have played Beethoven's music on an upright to
re-create this? Probably not, but it gives me an excuse to point out again
that best understand a composer's piano repertoire on an appropriate period
instrument.
>
> Bill
>
> In a message dated 2/15/2005 9:27:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Ed
Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com> writes:
>
> >Bill-
> >I agree completely with your comments. My statement was intentionally
kept
> >to one qualified sentence. Late pictures of Liszt show him at an upright
> >piano, and if I remember correctly, a quotation from a student mentions
him
> >playing a movement from a Beethoven sonata at that piano. I don't know
> >what to make of that. Liszt was a remarkable man, not easy to pin down.
> >Ed
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: <Bdshull@aol.com>
> >> To: <caut@ptg.org ("College and University Technicians")>
> >> Date: 2/15/2005 9:10:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway Style II Grand: Liszt/Erard
> >>
> >> Being a west coast resident I don't get to travel I95 often, but I
don't
> >forget my 5 hours on I95 in a rented Chevy S10 which had uncomfortable
> >seats. The little side jaunts in Conn and Mass were wonderful
> >diversions....
> >>
> >> I'll leave that for what it means to the reader...if anything...but I
> >have to bite on the comments about Liszt (Ed, I know your comments on
Liszt
> >were qualified and nuanced, but I couldn't resist this anyway).
> >>
> >> The question of what the composer would PREFER is interesting, but not
> >nearly as important as what the composer HAD and USED, that is, what the
> >composer preferred from the available instruments. Liszt, the archetypal
> >19th century progressive, went for the biggest and best machine
available.
> >But he had nearly finished composing by the time the modern piano began
its
> >development in the 1860's. 90% of Liszt's piano repertoire would be best
> >understood on a reproduction Erard of the mid-19th century.
Unfortunately,
> >none exist. So we make do with restored instruments, which at least give
> >us a cloudy picture.
> >>
> >> While Liszt played loud and fast, he played slow and singing, he played
> >soft and fast...His development of piano technique brought color as a
> >musical element up to the level of one of the essential elements of
music.
> >For us to understand the music of Franz Liszt - to understand what he
heard
> >and what his audiences heard - we would need a reproduction Erard.
> >>
> >> Unfortunately as instruments became larger they became more expensive.
> >Reproductions are more expensive, too; A reproduction Erard will be
> >prohibitively expensive until an inspired benefactor commissions several
to
> >be built (why not build more than one, and spread the costs - and the
> >benefits - out some?).
> >>
> >> Bill Shull
> >>
> >> In a message dated 2/15/2005 3:16:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Ed
> >Sutton" <ed440@mindspring.com> writes:
> >>
> >> >It's a fair guess that Chris is correct that Liszt would want the
> >fastest, loudest piano available, at least if he were playing his
virtuoso
> >show pieces. (And maybe not for other music.)
> >> >On the other hand, Chopin, Schumann and Brahms would be harder to
> >predict. We know that Chopin made peculiar selections of pianos, if loud
> >and fast are the sole criteria. Anyone who has played a Viennese action
> >piano, early or late, knows that these instruments articulate the
classical
> >and romantic repertoire in a way that can't be done on a modern action.
> >> >I, for one, don't wish to spend all my travels on I-95.
> >> >ES
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: Don McKechnie
> >> >To: caut@ptg.org
> >> >Sent: 2/15/2005 2:01:36 PM
> >> >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway Style II Grand
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Wouldn't it be great to see Chris argue his point with Malcolm Bilson.
> >Might turn into a slug fest! :-) Having lived here in Ithaca (the land of
> >historical performance practice) for some time, I find listening to music
> >performed on historical instruments interesting at least for an academic
> >standpoint. And, occasionally it is a great musical experience. Cornell
has
> >a couple of pianos from the mid 1800's that sound very good and when
played
> >by a skilled pianist, can be very rewarding to hear. Just my humble
opinion.
> >> >
> >> >Don
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I may as well take this opportunity to come out of the closet and
> >reveal my bias, actually a pet peave, just to be fair. In case anyone
> >wasn't catching the drift, I have almost no use for historical
instruments.
> >I can't imagine any musician of the day, say Franz Liszt, looking for
"the
> >good old piano." Most often professional pianists, unless they are
looking
> >for novelty, or are overcome with this absurd nostalgia for "original
> >instruments," look for the best new piano they can find. 'Cause the
design
> >is up to date and the parts are new and it plays like they expect.
> >Everything else is ANOMALY. And unless your customer is of that ilk I'd
> >stick to I-95. (I do make one notable exception and that is
reproductions.
> >They make for wonderful "Historical" concerts although I do think the
whole
> >concept is a bit hysterical). Of course Stephen, be attentive to what
Bill
> >Shull and others are warning of cause this isn't I-95, but get as close
as
> >you can and a "NORMAL" customer will be !
> >> h!
> >> >appy. And BTW, sorry Bill, we're full at MARC and printed for this
year,
> >but I have forwarded your shameless self invitation to Steve and Paul and
> >will put in a good word for you.
> >> >Best to All,
> >> > Chris Solliday
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >
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