[CAUT] Agraff levels

[dan l tassin]

Yes, you could use the keybed to level.   However, the sting's "plane" is
most
important.   But, to be "real" about the whole thing,  a bubble in a
glass will get
you as close to 1-3 degrees on "0" level.   That's plenty accurate to
plane the 
piano before leveling your strings.  ( don't you think ? )   I put a
level across
the bass strings and then across ( the exposed ) mid and treble stings
for the purpose.
But,  "do"  check the piano "level" plane.   OR, your bubble on two or
three strings
won't be accurate.   Make sense ??      [ real  "basic"  engineering ] 
but, something to think about.

Dan Tassin, RPT

=========================================================

On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:15:11 -0400 "Chris Solliday" <solliday at ptd.net>
writes:
how about the keybed?
Chris Solliday
----- Original Message ----- 
From: dan l tassin 
To: caut at ptg.org 
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels


AND  ...   ALL stages and floors are NOT alike.

SO ...      Don't forget to   "level"  the piano before you use your
bubble gauge.

Your strings might  "tilt"  in the direction of the Sun,  just like the
earth.   
( aka :  Summer Time --  "Global Warming" )    Performers  "heat up" 
when
their strings aren't level.   ( Remember =  spell it backwards :  L e v e
L ).

This is very important to remember.    How does one level the piano ??
Try a longer, straight ( carpenter's ) level across the majority of
strings, or
from side-to-side across the rim of the piano ( just behind the music
desk),
or on top of the stretcher.   [ it'll be close enough to check it. ]   
Then,
Shims under the casters will work, or use a jack ( in the box ) on the
low side.
( having a student hold it up on one side won't be stable enough.)

Do all of this  ONLY  ---  if you want it to be "accurate."   ....    
Etarucca !!


Dan Tassin, RPT
Asst. Piano Tech,
Vanderbilt, Blair SOM

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On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:40:22 -0400 "Becker, Lawrence \(beckerlr\)"
<BECKERLR at ucmail.uc.edu> writes:
Joe-
 
I have a way that works for me to use your bubble gauge near the struts
and where there isn’t room between the dampers and v-bar.  I use a short
section of flat brass that has been squared at both ends.  Stand it
upright on the strings just in front of the damper, with the bottom of
the level in solid contact with the top of the brass piece.  I center the
bubble, then pluck the strings.  (Different than sitting the gauge on the
strings and seeing where the bubble goes.)  Trying to hold both pieces in
one hand might feel a little fumbly at first, but if I can do it, so can
most other folks.
 
Lawrence Becker, RPT
Piano Technician
College-Conservatory of Music
University of Cincinnati



From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Joe
And Penny Goss
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:45 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
 
Hi Should have proofed
Their
The thinner vial is inserted into a hole drilled into the 1/4" body of
the level with a window that helps make certain the tool is used in the
same orientation each and every time.
The most often asked question?
"Does the piano need to be level?"
Yes, but only to determine if the bubble is in the window. If it is,
level to the same spot.
If it is not, one needs to shim a leg.
With uneven agraff,
level the strings to the foot of the tool with the least slant, and file
the hammer to mate the string.
At the struts often one or two unisons can not be leveled with the foot.
Eric Schandall showed me how he lays the level on its side under the
strut to reach these strings. 
Eric has purchased 20 or so levels. I think he gives them away to folks
who attend Steinway seminars and do not have one <g>
Joe Goss RPT
Mother Goose Tools
imatunr at srvinet.com
www.mothergoosetools.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joe And Penny Goss 
To: College and University Technicians 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
 
Hi Lance,
To my knowledge string - hammer mating was never done on the level (
sorry ) that it is today.
It was more a mater of mating the hammer to whatever the strings were.
Sorry if there was a problem when the una corda pedal was used.
It may have been Fazioli who was the first to use a level on their
instruments. There level was / is 
a piece of brass H channel with a vial in the top and the base cut so it
will cover just one unison.
Very light and for me too light. When one plucks the string too hard to
test for good mating, the level tends to bounce off the unison.
I introduced my first level at the Orlando national. It was way too
light. Only 10 were made.
We settled on using a brass blank that weighs about 45 grams and with the
vial almost 50 grams.
The only real change in the brass model was to use a thinner vial so that
the tool would stand up a little better to dropage without the vial
popping off.
Joe Goss RPT
Mother Goose Tools
imatunr at srvinet.com
www.mothergoosetools.com
----- Original Message ----- 
From: lafargue at bellsouth.net 
To: 'College and University Technicians' 
Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
 
At the beginning of this thread I was concerned about an Estonia with
tilted agraffes and uneven agraffe/string holes.  It was to the point
that I couldn't bend a string enough to compensate for good string/hammer
mating. I have seen this on other pianos, but not this much.  
 
It would be interesting to know who makes agraffes and are the plate
makers aware of the importance of a level plane (duh, probably).  With
the increase in our world-wide market for parts now, I wonder who makes
them.  
 
The bottom line is that you cannot prep a piano to a high level without
this to lay a foundation on.  
 
 
Lance Lafargue, RPT
LAFARGUE PIANOS, LTD
New Orleans Chapter, PTG
985.72P.IANO
lafargue at bellsouth.net
www.lpianos.com
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Fred Sturm
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:53 AM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels
I don't know where Steinway buys agraffes, but they now own Kelly Plate,
and they have upgraded that facility to install a computer controlled
drilling process. The spacing of agraffes in new pianos is MUCH better in
the past two to three years. I suspect the square of the holes (hence
lack of cant of the agraffes) is much better, too - I haven't noticed
much trouble leveling strings on the few new instruments I have serviced.
They used to have Kelly drill their plates. Bad idea.  
All that said, perfection of hole drilling in cast iron is iffy at best.
The unevenness of the material itself causes bits to chatter, at least in
my experience. It's not like drilling brass.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm at unm.edu
 



 
On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Willem Blees wrote:



It sounds like we're talking about two different issues. One is the 
level of the agraff itself, compared to the level of the of the plate. 
What you claiming is that the plane of the agraff holes are not level 
with the plate. Which could be caused by poor drilling, or that the 
counter sink of the agraff hole is not flat, which will cause the 
agraff to cant to one side when it is tightened. 
 
The other issue is the holes in the agraff, which is what I was 
referrring to. Although there might be very minute differnces in the 
plane of the holes compared to the top of the agraff, I think the holes 
themselves are level. 
 
BTW, does Steinway make their own agraffs, or are they outsourced?
 
Wim 
Willem Blees, RPT
Piano Tuner/Technician
School of Music
University of Alabama
Tuscaloosa, AL USA
 
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