Yeah, it seems to me a longish level lying on the tenor strings should give you an idea of the level of the strings in general...raise one side or the other to match that level...makes sense to me... David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 Original message From: "dan l tassin" To: caut at ptg.org Received: 7/24/2006 12:08:52 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels Yes, you could use the keybed to level. However, the sting's "plane" is most important. But, to be "real" about the whole thing, a bubble in a glass will get you as close to 1-3 degrees on "0" level. That's plenty accurate to plane the piano before leveling your strings. ( don't you think ? ) I put a level across the bass strings and then across ( the exposed ) mid and treble stings for the purpose. But, "do" check the piano "level" plane. OR, your bubble on two or three strings won't be accurate. Make sense ?? [ real "basic" engineering ] but, something to think about. Dan Tassin, RPT ========================================================= On Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:15:11 -0400 "Chris Solliday" <solliday at ptd.net> writes: how about the keybed? Chris Solliday ----- Original Message ----- From: dan l tassin To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels AND ... ALL stages and floors are NOT alike. SO ... Don't forget to "level" the piano before you use your bubble gauge. Your strings might "tilt" in the direction of the Sun, just like the earth. ( aka : Summer Time -- "Global Warming" ) Performers "heat up" when their strings aren't level. ( Remember = spell it backwards : L e v e L ). This is very important to remember. How does one level the piano ?? Try a longer, straight ( carpenter's ) level across the majority of strings, or from side-to-side across the rim of the piano ( just behind the music desk), or on top of the stretcher. [ it'll be close enough to check it. ] Then, Shims under the casters will work, or use a jack ( in the box ) on the low side. ( having a student hold it up on one side won't be stable enough.) Do all of this ONLY --- if you want it to be "accurate." .... Etarucca !! Dan Tassin, RPT Asst. Piano Tech, Vanderbilt, Blair SOM ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:40:22 -0400 "Becker, Lawrence \(beckerlr\)" <BECKERLR at ucmail.uc.edu> writes: Joe- I have a way that works for me to use your bubble gauge near the struts and where there isn’t room between the dampers and v-bar. I use a short section of flat brass that has been squared at both ends. Stand it upright on the strings just in front of the damper, with the bottom of the level in solid contact with the top of the brass piece. I center the bubble, then pluck the strings. (Different than sitting the gauge on the strings and seeing where the bubble goes.) Trying to hold both pieces in one hand might feel a little fumbly at first, but if I can do it, so can most other folks. Lawrence Becker, RPT Piano Technician College-Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Joe And Penny Goss Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:45 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels Hi Should have proofed Their The thinner vial is inserted into a hole drilled into the 1/4" body of the level with a window that helps make certain the tool is used in the same orientation each and every time. The most often asked question? "Does the piano need to be level?" Yes, but only to determine if the bubble is in the window. If it is, level to the same spot. If it is not, one needs to shim a leg. With uneven agraff, level the strings to the foot of the tool with the least slant, and file the hammer to mate the string. At the struts often one or two unisons can not be leveled with the foot. Eric Schandall showed me how he lays the level on its side under the strut to reach these strings. Eric has purchased 20 or so levels. I think he gives them away to folks who attend Steinway seminars and do not have one <g> Joe Goss RPT Mother Goose Tools imatunr at srvinet.com www.mothergoosetools.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe And Penny Goss To: College and University Technicians Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels Hi Lance, To my knowledge string - hammer mating was never done on the level ( sorry ) that it is today. It was more a mater of mating the hammer to whatever the strings were. Sorry if there was a problem when the una corda pedal was used. It may have been Fazioli who was the first to use a level on their instruments. There level was / is a piece of brass H channel with a vial in the top and the base cut so it will cover just one unison. Very light and for me too light. When one plucks the string too hard to test for good mating, the level tends to bounce off the unison. I introduced my first level at the Orlando national. It was way too light. Only 10 were made. We settled on using a brass blank that weighs about 45 grams and with the vial almost 50 grams. The only real change in the brass model was to use a thinner vial so that the tool would stand up a little better to dropage without the vial popping off. Joe Goss RPT Mother Goose Tools imatunr at srvinet.com www.mothergoosetools.com ----- Original Message ----- From: lafargue at bellsouth.net To: 'College and University Technicians' Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels At the beginning of this thread I was concerned about an Estonia with tilted agraffes and uneven agraffe/string holes. It was to the point that I couldn't bend a string enough to compensate for good string/hammer mating. I have seen this on other pianos, but not this much. It would be interesting to know who makes agraffes and are the plate makers aware of the importance of a level plane (duh, probably). With the increase in our world-wide market for parts now, I wonder who makes them. The bottom line is that you cannot prep a piano to a high level without this to lay a foundation on. Lance Lafargue, RPT LAFARGUE PIANOS, LTD New Orleans Chapter, PTG 985.72P.IANO lafargue at bellsouth.net www.lpianos.com -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:53 AM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] Agraff levels I don't know where Steinway buys agraffes, but they now own Kelly Plate, and they have upgraded that facility to install a computer controlled drilling process. The spacing of agraffes in new pianos is MUCH better in the past two to three years. I suspect the square of the holes (hence lack of cant of the agraffes) is much better, too - I haven't noticed much trouble leveling strings on the few new instruments I have serviced. They used to have Kelly drill their plates. Bad idea. All that said, perfection of hole drilling in cast iron is iffy at best. The unevenness of the material itself causes bits to chatter, at least in my experience. It's not like drilling brass. Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico fssturm at unm.edu On Jul 17, 2006, at 8:04 PM, Willem Blees wrote: It sounds like we're talking about two different issues. One is the level of the agraff itself, compared to the level of the of the plate. What you claiming is that the plane of the agraff holes are not level with the plate. Which could be caused by poor drilling, or that the counter sink of the agraff hole is not flat, which will cause the agraff to cant to one side when it is tightened. The other issue is the holes in the agraff, which is what I was referrring to. Although there might be very minute differnces in the plane of the holes compared to the top of the agraff, I think the holes themselves are level. BTW, does Steinway make their own agraffs, or are they outsourced? Wim Willem Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician School of Music University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL USA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20060725/c26ff2f0/attachment-0001.html
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