Hi Thomas,
You're right about it being different for every tech. I tune for BYU as
well as "Snow College", a Steinway School with 34 Steinways. While I
don't deal with the same issues at both schools I think a "CAUT
Credential" should probably cover the larger school needs so that if the
smaller school CAUT tech ever went to a larger university he/she would
be better trained. Well, at least they might be exposed to the larger
scale problems/issues at a larger institution. We mustn't get into a
mindset that this credential will be all/do all for all techs any more
than a teaching degree will help the "one room schoolhouse" teacher the
same as the larger 5A schools.
Jim Busby BYU
________________________________
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Thomas Russell
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 9:38 PM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential
I have been following this discussion but haven't chimed in until now.
As was pointed out recently, CAUT encompasses a wide variety of
positions. My position at Iowa State University is a contract position
that requires high level concert preparation and tuning for
international orchestras, solo pianists, and touring chamber ensembles
several times a year. Other than that I am asked to maintain
approximately 30 aging Steinway grands (and 30 various uprights) in
studios, on stages, and in practice rooms on a limited budget. I give
advice about what I see as priorities and hope they can come up with the
money to pay for what is needed. I am paid my rate for the work I
provide. I have nothing to do with administration, budgeting, HVAC, or
supervision.
I am asked to do the work at Iowa State University because, over the
years, I have been able to consistently provide quality work on demand.
I built up a level of trust over time. Although I haven't seen any data
on hiring practices or types of contracts, I would guess that my
situation is fairly typical of universities and colleges that don't have
national level music programs. In my position, a CAUT credential as
described by many on the list wouldn't be useful to me or Iowa State
University. The musicians and concert venue managers that request my
work and the administrators that agree to pay me do so because I provide
the specific services at the level they require. From what I have seen
on this list, every university has a different set of needs for the
technician. Their best hiring process would be references, vita, and a
trial over time prior to a long term contract.
As a working technician, I would agree with the sentiments expressed by
Richard West. I think PTG efforts would be best expended in creating
training materials and providing training opportunities for CAUTS in all
the areas where needs have been expressed in these discussions.
Thomas Russell RPT
Iowa State University
On Nov 1, 2007, at 8:32 PM, caut-request at ptg.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (ITUNEPIANO at aol.com)
2. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (Kent Swafford)
3. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (Jim Busby)
4. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (ITUNEPIANO at aol.com)
5. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (David Love)
6. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (David Love)
7. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (David Love)
From: ITUNEPIANO at aol.com
Date: November 1, 2007 6:51:24 PM CDT
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
In a message dated 11/1/2007 6:16:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu writes:
At the very least, we should understand musical nomenclature
even if we can only play chopsticks.
Sounds like musical nomenclature could be part of a caut class/written
test.
Bob Maret, RPT
Piano Technician
________________________________
See what's new at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170>
and Make AOL Your Homepage
<http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169> .
From: Kent Swafford <kswafford at gmail.com>
Date: November 1, 2007 6:46:46 PM CDT
To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Jim Busby wrote:
This one sentence is what I want to comment on "If an RPT/ CAUT is to be
something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then different standards
should be established". I don't see the CAUT credential as something
"more desirable" or higher, better than, etc. It seems to me like it's
just "different", or "in addition to" RPT. My understanding of a "CAUT
Credential" is that it will help CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs
may not need.
Sounds like a "specialty" to me. CAUTs are "specialists", aren't they?
Kent
From: Jim Busby <jim_busby at byu.edu>
Date: November 1, 2007 6:55:06 PM CDT
To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
Yes. Not "better"...specialists.
Jim
________________________________
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Kent Swafford
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:47 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Jim Busby wrote:
This one sentence is what I want to comment on "If an RPT/ CAUT is to be
something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then different standards
should be established". I don't see the CAUT credential as something
"more desirable" or higher, better than, etc. It seems to me like it's
just "different", or "in addition to" RPT. My understanding of a "CAUT
Credential" is that it will help CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs
may not need.
Sounds like a "specialty" to me. CAUTs are "specialists", aren't they?
Kent
From: ITUNEPIANO at aol.com
Date: November 1, 2007 6:54:05 PM CDT
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
Agree 100%, Jim
Bob Maret, RPT
Piano Technician
________________________________
See what's new at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001170>
and Make AOL Your Homepage
<http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP00300000001169> .
From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
Date: November 1, 2007 7:40:17 PM CDT
To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
While knowing how to play the piano certainly can't hurt a piano
technician, it's not clear that it necessarily helps. Certainly being a
pianist doesn't make you a piano technician: how many pianists can't
tell you the difference between a hammer and a damper? Piano
technicians will have different skill sets and levels of understanding
the mechanics of a piano and you will find just as often excellent piano
technicians who don't play as you will piano technicians who play who
aren't very skilled technicians. The same is true for communicating. A
skilled technician is in part, by my definition, one who is able to
communicate effectively with the pianist whether it is about the
difficulties of executing a rapid passage, the subtleties of voicing, or
the quality of tone. Where a piano technician who doesn't play is at
somewhat of a disadvantage is that they can't necessarily test out the
performance aspect themselves. But how many piano technicians, even
those who do play, really can push the piano to its limit. Playing the
piano and working on the piano are not always the most compatible,
especially in terms of the stresses put on the hands.
David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net
www.davidlovepianos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Paul T Williams
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:12 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Jeff,
Since we don't have a time machine to test that, then yes, it is
"impossible to measure" How do you know what to do if the pianist says
" it's difficult to control the pedaling during the pianissimo section
of the development in the second movement" or "the presto section of so
and so's piece is nearly impossible to acheive"? This kind of musical
knowledge is crucial to make the artist happy. Some musicians attempt to
put things in layman's terms, but many don't. They do a lot of assuming
that we understand their speak. On the other side, some musicians try to
understand our lingo and many do, but most don't. The more education on
both sides of the coin, the better the end result will be.
At the very least, we should understand musical nomenclature even if we
can only play chopsticks. Diversity of learning involves both education
and life experiences. Where do you/we draw the line? There is no
"formula" to do this... Do you want a clear-cut solution? That too, is
"impossible". What is your "perfect solution" , then? There is none,
but we have to start with something. If an RPT/ CAUT is to be something
"more desireable" than an RPT status, then different standards should be
established. So, how would you determine what that is? Or, should we
just go with the status-quo for universities to mearly know that RPT's
have reached a great level of piano technology and leave the education
learned elsewhere by the wayside?
Paul
Jeff Tanner <jtanner at mozart.sc.edu>
Sent by: caut-bounces at ptg.org
10/31/2007 01:11 PM
Please respond to
College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
To
College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
cc
Subject
Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
Date: November 1, 2007 8:13:00 PM CDT
To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
One problem I see in all this is that at all levels the requirements are
different and it renders the classification somewhat
meaningless-certainly for those of us on the inside. There are RPTs who
took the tests some years ago and haven't worked on a piano for ages,
preferring now to spend their time as dealers. There are others who
only do simple house call type work and then there are those who can
build you a piano out of a pile of lumber and some scrap iron. There
are those who manage rebuilding shops with many employees, inventories,
buy and sell and do concert work and there are those who do nothing more
than dealer service calls. Similarly, there are CAUT's who manage all
levels of inventory, rebuilding, purchasing and employees and others who
simply do simple service work on demand. Unless you differentiate by
some sort of subcategorizing method, adding various subtests like boy
scout merit badges, a separate CAUT classification would be no more
helpful in defining someone's skills than the RPT classification. I
don't see that happening nor do I think it would be an easy thing to
administer.
David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net
www.davidlovepianos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Kent Swafford
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:47 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Jim Busby wrote:
This one sentence is what I want to comment on "If an RPT/ CAUT is to be
something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then different standards
should be established". I don't see the CAUT credential as something
"more desirable" or higher, better than, etc. It seems to me like it's
just "different", or "in addition to" RPT. My understanding of a "CAUT
Credential" is that it will help CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs
may not need.
Sounds like a "specialty" to me. CAUTs are "specialists", aren't they?
Kent
From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
Date: November 1, 2007 8:31:24 PM CDT
To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
I sent this off in a bit of a hurry and wanted to add that playing can
actually hurt you as a technician-especially if you don't really play
that well. I've heard many technicians who can supposedly play but have
a limited repertoire and one which they struggle to get through. One
problem when you are struggling to play something is that you often
don't really hear it that well, you are too consumed with getting the
notes under your fingers to pay close attention to what you are hearing.
That can be a distraction. A non player who plays a few notes at a time
listening carefully for tone, can test repetition with a two handed
stroke, and who can assess balance by comparing in a simple way various
sections of the piano may be better off than one who puts the piano to
the test by a poorly played Chopin Polonaise.
David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net
www.davidlovepianos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
David Love
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:40 PM
To: 'College and University Technicians'
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
While knowing how to play the piano certainly can't hurt a piano
technician, it's not clear that it necessarily helps. Certainly being a
pianist doesn't make you a piano technician: how many pianists can't
tell you the difference between a hammer and a damper? Piano
technicians will have different skill sets and levels of understanding
the mechanics of a piano and you will find just as often excellent piano
technicians who don't play as you will piano technicians who play who
aren't very skilled technicians. The same is true for communicating. A
skilled technician is in part, by my definition, one who is able to
communicate effectively with the pianist whether it is about the
difficulties of executing a rapid passage, the subtleties of voicing, or
the quality of tone. Where a piano technician who doesn't play is at
somewhat of a disadvantage is that they can't necessarily test out the
performance aspect themselves. But how many piano technicians, even
those who do play, really can push the piano to its limit. Playing the
piano and working on the piano are not always the most compatible,
especially in terms of the stresses put on the hands.
David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net
www.davidlovepianos.com
_______________________________________________
caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
Thomas Russell RPT
Registered Piano Technician
1206 Michigan Ave.
Ames, IA 50014
515-268-1616
trussellpiano at isunet.net
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