I have been following this discussion but haven't chimed in until now. As was pointed out recently, CAUT encompasses a wide variety of positions. My position at Iowa State University is a contract position that requires high level concert preparation and tuning for international orchestras, solo pianists, and touring chamber ensembles several times a year. Other than that I am asked to maintain approximately 30 aging Steinway grands (and 30 various uprights) in studios, on stages, and in practice rooms on a limited budget. I give advice about what I see as priorities and hope they can come up with the money to pay for what is needed. I am paid my rate for the work I provide. I have nothing to do with administration, budgeting, HVAC, or supervision. I am asked to do the work at Iowa State University because, over the years, I have been able to consistently provide quality work on demand. I built up a level of trust over time. Although I haven't seen any data on hiring practices or types of contracts, I would guess that my situation is fairly typical of universities and colleges that don't have national level music programs. In my position, a CAUT credential as described by many on the list wouldn't be useful to me or Iowa State University. The musicians and concert venue managers that request my work and the administrators that agree to pay me do so because I provide the specific services at the level they require. From what I have seen on this list, every university has a different set of needs for the technician. Their best hiring process would be references, vita, and a trial over time prior to a long term contract. As a working technician, I would agree with the sentiments expressed by Richard West. I think PTG efforts would be best expended in creating training materials and providing training opportunities for CAUTS in all the areas where needs have been expressed in these discussions. Thomas Russell RPT Iowa State University On Nov 1, 2007, at 8:32 PM, caut-request at ptg.org wrote: > Send caut mailing list submissions to > caut at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > caut-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > caut-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of caut digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (ITUNEPIANO at aol.com) > 2. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (Kent Swafford) > 3. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (Jim Busby) > 4. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (ITUNEPIANO at aol.com) > 5. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (David Love) > 6. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (David Love) > 7. Re: CAUT credential vs. academic program? (David Love) > > From: ITUNEPIANO at aol.com > Date: November 1, 2007 6:51:24 PM CDT > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > In a message dated 11/1/2007 6:16:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu writes: > At the very least, we should understand musical nomenclature even > if we can only play chopsticks. > Sounds like musical nomenclature could be part of a caut class/ > written test. > > Bob Maret, RPT > Piano Technician > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. > > From: Kent Swafford <kswafford at gmail.com> > Date: November 1, 2007 6:46:46 PM CDT > To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > > On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Jim Busby wrote: > >> This one sentence is what I want to comment on “If an RPT/ CAUT is >> to be something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then >> different standards should be established”. I don’t see the CAUT >> credential as something “more desirable” or higher, better than, >> etc. It seems to me like it’s just “different”, or “in addition >> to” RPT. My understanding of a “CAUT Credential” is that it will >> help CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs may not need. > > Sounds like a "specialty" to me. CAUTs are "specialists", aren't they? > > > Kent > > > From: Jim Busby <jim_busby at byu.edu> > Date: November 1, 2007 6:55:06 PM CDT > To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > Yes. Not “better”…specialists. > > > > Jim > > > > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of Kent Swafford > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:47 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > > > > > > On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Jim Busby wrote: > > > > > This one sentence is what I want to comment on “If an RPT/ CAUT is > to be something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then > different standards should be established”. I don’t see the CAUT > credential as something “more desirable” or higher, better than, > etc. It seems to me like it’s just “different”, or “in addition to” > RPT. My understanding of a “CAUT Credential” is that it will help > CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs may not need. > > > > Sounds like a "specialty" to me. CAUTs are "specialists", aren't they? > > > > > > Kent > > > > > From: ITUNEPIANO at aol.com > Date: November 1, 2007 6:54:05 PM CDT > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > Agree 100%, Jim > > Bob Maret, RPT > Piano Technician > > > > See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage. > > From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> > Date: November 1, 2007 7:40:17 PM CDT > To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > While knowing how to play the piano certainly can’t hurt a piano > technician, it’s not clear that it necessarily helps. Certainly > being a pianist doesn’t make you a piano technician: how many > pianists can’t tell you the difference between a hammer and a > damper? Piano technicians will have different skill sets and > levels of understanding the mechanics of a piano and you will find > just as often excellent piano technicians who don’t play as you > will piano technicians who play who aren’t very skilled > technicians. The same is true for communicating. A skilled > technician is in part, by my definition, one who is able to > communicate effectively with the pianist whether it is about the > difficulties of executing a rapid passage, the subtleties of > voicing, or the quality of tone. Where a piano technician who > doesn’t play is at somewhat of a disadvantage is that they can’t > necessarily test out the performance aspect themselves. But how > many piano technicians, even those who do play, really can push the > piano to its limit. Playing the piano and working on the piano are > not always the most compatible, especially in terms of the stresses > put on the hands. > > > David Love > davidlovepianos at comcast.net > www.davidlovepianos.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of Paul T Williams > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 3:12 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > > > > Jeff, > > Since we don't have a time machine to test that, then yes, it is > "impossible to measure" How do you know what to do if the pianist > says " it's difficult to control the pedaling during the pianissimo > section of the development in the second movement" or "the presto > section of so and so's piece is nearly impossible to acheive"? This > kind of musical knowledge is crucial to make the artist happy. Some > musicians attempt to put things in layman's terms, but many don't. > They do a lot of assuming that we understand their speak. On the > other side, some musicians try to understand our lingo and many do, > but most don't. The more education on both sides of the coin, the > better the end result will be. > > At the very least, we should understand musical nomenclature even > if we can only play chopsticks. Diversity of learning involves both > education and life experiences. Where do you/we draw the line? > There is no "formula" to do this... Do you want a clear-cut > solution? That too, is "impossible". What is your "perfect > solution" , then? There is none, but we have to start with > something. If an RPT/ CAUT is to be something "more desireable" > than an RPT status, then different standards should be established. > So, how would you determine what that is? Or, should we just go > with the status-quo for universities to mearly know that RPT's have > reached a great level of piano technology and leave the education > learned elsewhere by the wayside? > Paul > > > > > Jeff Tanner <jtanner at mozart.sc.edu> > Sent by: caut-bounces at ptg.org > > 10/31/2007 01:11 PM > > Please respond to > College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > To > > College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > cc > > > Subject > > Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> > Date: November 1, 2007 8:13:00 PM CDT > To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > One problem I see in all this is that at all levels the > requirements are different and it renders the classification > somewhat meaningless—certainly for those of us on the inside. > There are RPTs who took the tests some years ago and haven’t worked > on a piano for ages, preferring now to spend their time as > dealers. There are others who only do simple house call type work > and then there are those who can build you a piano out of a pile of > lumber and some scrap iron. There are those who manage rebuilding > shops with many employees, inventories, buy and sell and do concert > work and there are those who do nothing more than dealer service > calls. Similarly, there are CAUT’s who manage all levels of > inventory, rebuilding, purchasing and employees and others who > simply do simple service work on demand. Unless you differentiate > by some sort of subcategorizing method, adding various subtests > like boy scout merit badges, a separate CAUT classification would > be no more helpful in defining someone’s skills than the RPT > classification. I don’t see that happening nor do I think it would > be an easy thing to administer. > > David Love > davidlovepianos at comcast.net > www.davidlovepianos.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of Kent Swafford > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 4:47 PM > To: College and University Technicians > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > > > > On Nov 1, 2007, at 5:50 PM, Jim Busby wrote: > > > > > This one sentence is what I want to comment on “If an RPT/ CAUT is > to be something "more desireable" than an RPT status, then > different standards should be established”. I don’t see the CAUT > credential as something “more desirable” or higher, better than, > etc. It seems to me like it’s just “different”, or “in addition to” > RPT. My understanding of a “CAUT Credential” is that it will help > CAUTs focus on things that non CAUTs may not need. > > > Sounds like a "specialty" to me. CAUTs are "specialists", aren't they? > > > > Kent > > > > From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> > Date: November 1, 2007 8:31:24 PM CDT > To: "'College and University Technicians'" <caut at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > Reply-To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org> > > > I sent this off in a bit of a hurry and wanted to add that playing > can actually hurt you as a technician—especially if you don’t > really play that well. I’ve heard many technicians who can > supposedly play but have a limited repertoire and one which they > struggle to get through. One problem when you are struggling to > play something is that you often don’t really hear it that well, > you are too consumed with getting the notes under your fingers to > pay close attention to what you are hearing. That can be a > distraction. A non player who plays a few notes at a time > listening carefully for tone, can test repetition with a two handed > stroke, and who can assess balance by comparing in a simple way > various sections of the piano may be better off than one who puts > the piano to the test by a poorly played Chopin Polonaise. > > > David Love > davidlovepianos at comcast.net > www.davidlovepianos.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of David Love > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 5:40 PM > To: 'College and University Technicians' > Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program? > > > While knowing how to play the piano certainly can’t hurt a piano > technician, it’s not clear that it necessarily helps. Certainly > being a pianist doesn’t make you a piano technician: how many > pianists can’t tell you the difference between a hammer and a > damper? Piano technicians will have different skill sets and > levels of understanding the mechanics of a piano and you will find > just as often excellent piano technicians who don’t play as you > will piano technicians who play who aren’t very skilled > technicians. The same is true for communicating. A skilled > technician is in part, by my definition, one who is able to > communicate effectively with the pianist whether it is about the > difficulties of executing a rapid passage, the subtleties of > voicing, or the quality of tone. Where a piano technician who > doesn’t play is at somewhat of a disadvantage is that they can’t > necessarily test out the performance aspect themselves. But how > many piano technicians, even those who do play, really can push the > piano to its limit. Playing the piano and working on the piano are > not always the most compatible, especially in terms of the stresses > put on the hands. > > > David Love > davidlovepianos at comcast.net > www.davidlovepianos.com > > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives Thomas Russell RPT Registered Piano Technician 1206 Michigan Ave. Ames, IA 50014 515-268-1616 trussellpiano at isunet.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/caut.php/attachments/20071101/9a6e7b0f/attachment-0001.html
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