[CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?

[David Love]

I did read that.  I think, however, that those constraints are not always
apparent and in certain situations you might be setting yourself up for a
misjudgment of your abilities.  Often, the faculty in such an institution
doesn't even understand the constraints.  I don't think I'd want to go that
route.  I can think of several situations institutional and otherwise where
I wouldn't want to rely on those judging my work to glean the constraints
under which I was operating.  Overall, if a certificate program were to be
instituted, I think a judgment made on more neutral ground via completion of
a class or program or testing, perhaps, would reduce the chances of that
type of misjudgment.   

David Love
davidlovepianos at comcast.net 
www.davidlovepianos.com

-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan
McCoy
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 3:52 PM
To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?

Yes David, I understand this. Hence my statement "...to see the context
within which they work..."

By context I mean, among other things, the constraints the technician is
operating within.

Alan


> From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net>
> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>"
<caut at ptg.org>
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:37:17 -0800
> To: 'College and University Technicians' <caut at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
> 
> Unfortunately, many CAUT techs are caught between what they feel needs to
be
> done (ideal outcomes) and what the university is willing or able to pay
for.
> Those two things are often miles apart and assessing the tech in that
> context may not be quite fair.
> 
> David Love
> davidlovepianos at comcast.net
> www.davidlovepianos.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Alan
> McCoy
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 12:40 PM
> To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
> 
> I haven't been following this thread closely at all, except to see that it
> has generated a lot of heat and comment.
> 
> FWIW, I think the best, though certainly not the cheapest nor the most
> practical, way to measure or evaluate a CAUT for a credential is an
on-site
> "inspection" like a NASM visit. What better way to evaluate someone than
to
> see, feel and hear their body of work? And to see the context within which
> they work - the budget, the number and quality of instruments, the tools
and
> workspace, the details of the contract or employment they work under.
> 
> Neither testing nor class attendance come close as evaluative tools.
> 
> My 2c worth.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Fred S Sturm <fssturm at unm.edu>
>> Reply-To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>"
> <caut at ptg.org>
>> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 12:51:27 -0700
>> To: "College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org>
>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT credential vs. academic program?
>> 
>> On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 06:22:03 -0600
>>   Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net> wrote:
>>> The notion that nothing can be
>>> learned without someone teaching it to you is nonsense.
>>> Ron N
>> 
>>      Absolutely correct. In fact, one can say that real
>> learning only happens when the person learning takes
>> responsibility. And much if not most of what we learn is
>> done on our own without direction from anyone else (we
>> might have been given initial direction, but then we work
>> it out for ourselves, in our own way. In a music lesson,
>> we are given direction, then expected to "practice,
>> practice" - which is where we really learn it. If we learn
>> it). The best "teachers" are those who inspire their
>> learners to
>> become self-motivated learners. The best learners are
>> those who question what their "teachers" say, and try to
>> come to their own understanding.
>>       Where does this thread have a practical application
>> to the issue at hand, the potential creation of a caut
>> credential? One way has to do with how piano technicians
>> receive their training. A small proportion attend a
>> formal, full-time training program like North Bennett.
>> Most of us "pick up some here, some there," relying on
>> formal or informal mentorships, factory-run intensive
>> programs (usually week long), classes at regional or
>> national institutes, reading the PTJ, books, listservs,
>> etc. IOW, it is very difficult to measure what training
>> most of us have had. Most of us probably consider
>> ourselves "largely self-taught," however accurate or
>> inaccurate that statement is on close examination.
>>      If this credential is to become a reality, we need to
>> measure skill and knowledge in some way, rather than
>> focusing on training. To get a handle on what we might
>> want to measure, we can imagine an average piano
>> technician with a background mostly in the area of home
>> service, as in semi-regular tuning, a bit of regulation,
>> necessary repairs for the most part. This, let us say,
>> represents the level of skill and knowledge tested for in
>> the RPT exams (and let's not get bogged down in examining
>> those exams in detail. Too much of a distraction from the
>> task at hand). Throw that person into a caut context. What
>> additional chops and knowledge are needed?
>>       There are certainly some practical, mechanical
>> skills and levels of skill that need to be addressed.
>> Tuning well enough to get a check for a home tuning is
>> different from tuning well enough for a professional
>> musician and musical audience, and this is particularly
>> noticeable in the concert situation. Especially in the
>> clarity and stability of unisons. Regulating well enough
>> to make the instrument work for most people is different
>> from the precision and "subtlety" needed in the
>> professional context. Not to mention voicing. There are a
>> lot of procedures that are far more common in a caut
>> context than in most others, like keybushing, tail
>> scuffing, knuckle brushing, centerpinning to fine
>> tolerances.
>>      And then there are organizational skills: "You have
>> 500 hours per year to take care of 50 pianos. Go do it."
>> Hmmm, how to get started? How to know if 10 hours per
>> piano per year is enough? Where to begin?
>>      It would be lovely to have an actual educational
>> program for cauts, full time for at least a few months. We
>> are more likely to have to rely on classes at national
>> institutes (moving out as possible to regionals), and
>> factory programs like the one Steinway does at Oberlin,
>> for the foreseeable future. I can certainly see the value
>> in working towards regular caut intensive programs, where
>> we bring cauts to various universities across the country
>> from year to year to do a few days of hands on. It would
>> take a lot of work to organize and prepare, and costs
>> would certainly be an issue. I don't think it would be
>> like Ed Foote's assessment of the financial rewards of
>> having attended North Bennett: a clear financial plus for
>> the attendee.
>>       In many ways, what we have before us is "an
>> impossible task." Whatever we come up with will not be
>> "ideal." Still, I firmly believe that we can come up with
>> something meaningful and useful.
>> Regards,
>> Fred Sturm
>> University of New Mexico
> 
> 
> 
>