Richard- As I have watched the "endorsement debate" over two years, I have felt that perhaps we would do better to develop a master syllabus covering all skills and knowledge applicable to piano technology. This master syllabus would be more than any one person would master, but would supply a framework within which each person could structure a lifelong learning plan. The syllabus could reach out to include and benefit from topics that are taught elsewhere (such as wood technology, acoustics, music theory and history of furniture decoration, to suggest a few). PTG would not have to develop texts or classes on these topics. PTG would then be able to recognize the topics we can best address, and develop a long range plan to develop PTG material where the need is greatest. We could gradually experiment to find ways of learning this material that are appropriate to the 21st century, and that let us take the role of maintaining and advancing our craft. Meanwhile, each member who cared to learn could be creating his or her personal curriculum. As this project proceeded, it could give new meaning to the RPT credential, as I hope we would create a class of lifelong learners within our profession. If the testing was kept meaningful and manageable, each RPT would be building an individual class resume, which might be of assistance in the development of "specialties" or "endorsements." The Grand Regulation text which you have been developing would be one part of this project. I have some thoughts about how this text could be used to create a new kind of class, a sort of RPT seminar in grand regulation. I also have hopes that other texts (perhaps Capleton's Tuning book, for one) could be used in a seminar form, perhaps in an on-line seminar, or an on-line discussion that follows up a face-to-face seminar. But these ideas are secondary to the idea of developing a master syllabus from which they would emerge. Ed Sutton -----Original Message----- >From: "rwest1 at unl.edu" <rwest1 at unl.edu> >Sent: May 15, 2010 10:43 AM >To: ed440 at mindspring.com, caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Professional Development > >Ed: > >Perhaps this approach could enhance the class evaluation program >already in place. In order to qualify for any kind of certificate, >signed class evaluations (signed by both the teacher and participant) >would have to be submitted at the end of event. The person would get >credit for the forms that she submits. Rather than testing, the >evaluation form could ask the person to list 5 things that he >learned. This in addition to overall evaluation. > >I believe your ideas about testing take us in the right direction. >For years I've been unhappy with the way testing is approached in >PTG. It seems we're overly eager to make and keep revising tests >without having a clearly defined body of work on which tests are >based. The CAUT endorsement proposal seems to perpetuate this cart >before the horse way of thinking. Your idea of testing is to present >the material then give a test. This is the way it should be done, >IMHO. My only problem with that in the case of proof of attendance >certificates, is that it may complicate the process enough that it >will be too hard to administer. Keep things simple, at least in the >beginning. > >Richard West > > >On May 15, 2010, at 2:42 AM, ed440 at mindspring.com wrote: > >> I have felt that an approach like this could be used to develop >> "endorsements" on a range of topics in a "build your own >> curriculum" fashion. Continuing professional education credits for >> RPTs, similar to what doctors do. Nowadays doctors can study and >> take some of their continuing education classes on line. >> >> I would add that I feel there should be some kind of exam at the >> end of the class, or shortly thereafter, to demonstrate that the >> student really did learn something. In effect the Home Office would >> maintain transcript records showing continuing professional >> learning. One of the functions of PTG would be to develop >> competency or knowledge exams on a range of continuing education >> topics. >> >> I also feel exams can be used to evaluate the success of classes. >> Lecture classes are nice, but who knows how effective they are? If >> students can pass an exam after my class, then I know I have been a >> successful teacher. Hands-on classes can have a task goal to show >> what has been learned. >> >> Ed Sutton >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Ward & Probst, Inc" <wardprobst at wardprobst.com> >>> Sent: May 14, 2010 11:24 PM >>> To: caut at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Professional Development >>> >>> Richard, >>> >>> Sorry, no intent to offend, I like the idea. Perhaps certificates >>> passed out >>> at the end of class would solve the sign off issue that the >>> Passport program >>> had. By the way, I didn't view the Passport program as a failure >>> in in >>> concept, just in execution. It's one thing to have an idea, it's a >>> whole >>> other ball game to get 4,000 PTG members to go along with it, DAMHIK. >>> Best, >>> DP >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >>> rwest1 at unl.edu >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:10 PM >>> To: caut at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Professional Development >>> >>> >>> Dale, >>> >>> I don't particularly like the comparison to the Passport to >>> Excellence since >>> that program was such a failure. I was thinking more along the >>> lines of >>> what mechanics get when they attend specialized training classes. >>> They >>> receive a "certificate" that is suitable for framing. I think we >>> could >>> learn from the problems with the passport experience but do a more >>> professional job of providing seminar attendees something concrete >>> to prove >>> that they acted on the worthy pursuit of continuing education. >>> Like many >>> ideas, the devil would be in the details and implementing a proof of >>> purchase program would be tricky. >>> >>> Richard West >>> >>> >>> On May 14, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Ward & Probst, Inc wrote: >>> >>> >>> RW, >>> Sounds similar to the Passport to Excellence program of a few >>> years ago. As >>> I recall, it was difficult for those who participated to get >>> instructors to >>> sign off on their attendance. The instructors would be tied up >>> answering >>> questions and signing off for some time after classes basically >>> creating a >>> traffic jam. Perhaps present day technology might help in that >>> regard. It >>> would certainly be a step in the right direction particularly if we >>> developed a resume template that would display the credentials in a >>> professional manner. It is more or less what I was hoping to do >>> with the >>> endorsements initially- recognize those who devote their time, >>> talent and >>> treasure to the pursuit of excellence. >>> DP >>> >>> Dale Probst, RPT >>> Registered Piano Technician >>> Midwestern State University >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >>> rwest1 at unl.edu >>> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 3:24 PM >>> To: caut at ptg.org >>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] CAUT Endorsement Requirements Misperception - >>> wasPreaching to the Choir >>> >>> >>> Why couldn't CAUT develop resume builders, i.e., suggested classes >>> and >>> certificates stating that a person attended those classes. For >>> example, >>> attending Steinway seminars should be CAUT suggested classes. as >>> well as >>> Yamaha Little Red School House. The same with Diskavier and >>> PianoDisk >>> seminars. Closer to home, every national or regional seminar >>> should grant >>> proof of attendance to regional classes or annual convention >>> classes for >>> those that want such proof. The certificate could list the >>> classes that the >>> person attended. Such pieces of paper would not only be good for >>> those >>> wanting to get a job at a university, but it would be good for >>> those who >>> already has a position and is wanting to prove to the institution >>> that the >>> technician was participating in professional classes. >>> >>> Richard West >>> >>> On May 14, 2010, at 3:01 PM, Chris Solliday wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill, >>> Well if it is SO easy, then just drop the RPT requirement and you >>> will find >>> a great deal more support. The RPT franchise can be marketed to >>> institutions >>> on its own merit. Of course there will be a few of your supporters >>> who will >>> disagree, but we must look for a way for the whole organization to >>> participate in additional certifications. In fact just to get the >>> record >>> straight all additional certifications should be open to ALL PTG >>> members. >>> Then it IS as simple as taking some courses and some written >>> tests. (It was >>> Kent Swafford who said, "I thought this would be simpler." Or >>> words to that >>> ...) This gives us the universality and flexibility to distinguish >>> those in >>> other area of expertise who will not be tuners as well. And it >>> would allow >>> us to include those very well trained (factory and other) CAUTs >>> who are not >>> RPTs but might want to become so if not forced to. >>> >>> In the face of self interest and political reality please ask >>> yourself why >>> the RPTs who will be voting in council would vote to make a few of >>> their >>> rank RPTs plus, or uber techs, or whatever you want to call it >>> when you >>> build only on the RPT franchise. Franchise ownership is a separate >>> issue. >>> And a much bigger prize. >>> >>> Why would an RPT who does not do much or no institutional work >>> agree to >>> giving an RPT a larger status than he or she has? Drop the RPT >>> component and >>> the endorsement makes sense with a few tweaks. The elephant in the >>> room is , >>> the CAUT endorsement should be open to all, as we have been >>> suggesting to >>> you for quite some time. Continuing to put your head in the sand and >>> continuing to recite what you hope might come true over and over >>> is probably >>> not going to work. >>> >>> I don't think btw that Jeff Tanner is unfamiliar with the proposal >>> as you >>> would digress. You should have been listening to what he and >>> others have >>> been saying on this issue for years, then maybe you would be >>> familiar with >>> what is reasonable and possible within the PTG structure. >>> >>> It always amazes me when piano technicians don't listen. >>> Chris Solliday >>> >>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >>> Bdshull at aol.com >>> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 2:37 AM >>> To: caut at ptg.org >>> Subject: [CAUT] CAUT Endorsement Requirements Misperception - was >>> Preaching >>> to the Choir >>> Hi, Jeff, >>> >>> Your last few posts lead me to think you are not familiar with the >>> CAUT >>> Endorsement proposal requirements, and it might be that others >>> have this >>> same misperception too. It would be easy, if one is to just read >>> Regulations and Codes Article IV, to come to the conclusion that >>> the CAUT >>> Endorsement might only be attained by attending the CAUT Academy >>> courses and >>> taking the 4 written tests. However, this is a mis-read of the >>> proposal. >>> The core of the proposal is in bylaws. If you don't have the May >>> supplement >>> you may go to the PTG Page members area, and follow the links - >>> resources, >>> forms and documents, Council 2010, Organizational/LRP: >>> >>> http://www.ptg.org/members/docs/2010/2010_Council_Agenda_Section_4- >>> Organizat >>> ional-LRP.pdf >>> >>> The only requirements in order to obtain this endorsement are that >>> one be a >>> Registered Piano Technician, and that one pass a written test on >>> CAUT-related subjects. The CAUT Endorsement is designed like a >>> certification, similar to the RPT; preparation for it is not >>> proscribed >>> but a CAUT Academy is offered with comprehensive curriculum. This is >>> similar to the RPT itself, where a variety of paths or combination >>> thereof >>> can lead to the CAUT Endorsement - trade schools, apprenticeships, >>> the Randy >>> Potter course, the PACE lessons. >>> >>> A CAUT Academy curriculum will be developed and offered, and each >>> segment >>> will be followed by written tests. This road to the CAUT >>> Endorsement will >>> be an incredible opportunity to master the knowledge and skills >>> needed for >>> college and university work. However, there are no proscribed >>> courses to >>> obtain the CAUT Endorsement in this proposal. >>> >>> I would expect that all of the excellent training programs - the >>> Theodore >>> Steinway Seminars, the Little Red Schoolhouse, etc, that you've >>> referred to >>> could be of use in preparing for the CAUT Endorsement, as they >>> address many >>> of the skills required in the college and university setting. These >>> courses are limited in their applicant pool, while the PTG does >>> not, and can >>> not place anti-competitive restrictions on its certifications. >>> Further, >>> the CAUT Academy curriculum would be CAUT-comprehensive in nature, >>> unlike >>> anything else available. >>> >>> I would also expect that the CAUT Academy, specifically tailored >>> to the >>> college setting - and not manufacturer-specific - would be an ideal >>> preparation for College and University work, as it will be taught >>> by leading >>> technicians in the field. >>> >>> The time may come when the PTG community would approve of >>> additional testing >>> beyond a written test, but the development of skills tests is a large >>> project. Testing must meet a number of standards, and a process of >>> beta-testing would also be required. Needless to say this has >>> been the >>> subject of considerable discussion in the committee, as well as in >>> conversations with the board and bylaws. It was felt that this >>> approach to >>> CAUT Endorsement requirements would not be onerous or unachievable by >>> qualified members (RPTs). >>> >>> The CAUT Endorsement testing would also provide the candidate with an >>> assessment of areas needing further training or education. But >>> there are >>> only these two requirements - RPT status and the passing of a >>> written test. >>> >>> I hope that you might see that this might satisfy your concerns. >>> Some have >>> considered this a "watered-down" and ineffective proposal, but your >>> arguments actually make the case for the proposal as it is >>> presented, not >>> onerous, not complex, not unattainable, but still a reflection of a >>> commitment to a certain knowledge base, as well as a commitment to >>> continued >>> growth and participation in the CAUT community. >>> >>> The curriculum component of this endorsement is voluntary. Even >>> if the >>> applicant doesn't attend the CAUT Academy, the curriculum is >>> important in >>> that it defines the skills and knowledge base needed for CAUT >>> piano service, >>> and should be an excellent source of CAUT-specific training and >>> education. >>> Anyone who hasn't studied the proposal should look over the >>> curriculum ; >>> they will see the wide range of areas the CAUT technician works >>> in. At >>> present it is only summarized in "regulations" as: >>> >>> The CAUT Workplace: Administrative topics. >>> Concert Tuning and Preparations. >>> Historic instrument Tuning and Maintenance >>> Special Topics in Servicing Institutional Instruments >>> >>> A detailed outline of this curriculum title "Components of >>> Endorsement" was >>> provided last year to council, and I expect that similar supporting >>> documentation in the form of of a beta Policy Handbook with a >>> fleshed-out >>> curriculum will be provided this year, too. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> Bill Shull, RPT, M.Mus. >>> CAUT Committee Member >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 5/12/2010 3:23:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>> tannertuner at bellsouth.net writes: >>> >>> Yes, a certificate of merit from CAUT. Not a doctoral degree in every >>> conceivable facet of the trade plus tangents into other trades. If >>> nothing >>> else, schools might also encourage their tech to attend Yamaha and >>> Steinway >>> training seminars, which the CAUT degree would not, could not >>> recognize. And >>> >>> since there is no way for a CAUT endorsement to recognize other >>> training >>> programs considered highly respected and viable by university >>> faculties and >>> performing artists, it renders the PTG CAUT endorsement uncredible. >>> Jeff >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net> >>> To: <tannertuner at bellsouth.net> >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:32 PM >>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Preaching to the choir;was University of Idaho >>> Piano >>> Tech Vacancy >>> >>> >>>> If schools want to do on the job training, that's what they'll >>>> do. They >>>> do need to be aware of the talent pool out there and a >>>> certificate of >>>> merit from CAUT could start their education. PTG/CAUT needs to be >>>> bombarding music departments with this info. If nothing else, >>>> schools >>>> might require their tech to attend classes with PTG... >>>> >>>> David Ilvedson, RPT >>>> Pacifica, CA 94044 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
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