A cautionary perspective to be sure. But whether it’s a current Steinway hammer that requires this type of treatment (Steinway hammers didn’t always) or a Hamburg Steinway hammer or something else, there’s no escaping subjectivity on the part of the technician who has to set up the piano. My point was that if you, the concert tech, feel that you can achieve what is needed with an aftermarket hammer (though I’m not sure I would consider a Hamburg Steinway hammer exactly aftermarket) then to stick to something that produces a lesser result only because you want to cover yourself just in case isn’t, in my view, the best approach. At some point you have to make an artistic decision about what produces the best outcome on this instrument and trust your judgment. This is all assuming it’s the hammer which it may not be or may not represent the whole story. (Lots of worthwhile talk about the belly and it also could be a combination of both. Also, if there are problems with the belly it might be that a different hammer would be more suitable.) >From a pure anecdotal perspective, I know of a couple of institutional techs who have gone to Hamburg D hammers on NY D’s (and one very highly thought of rebuilder locally who uses them as a default hammer on pretty much all Steinways of all sizes) with outstanding results both from the tech’s and the player’s viewpoint, with better stability and longer life expectancy (heavily lacquered hammers develop problems eventually). I have also used aftermarket hammers (Hamburg Steinway and others) on concert instruments with excellent results when a lacquered hammer didn’t perform as well, and I feel very comfortable working with lacquered hammers so it’s not a question of experience. Personally, I’d rather take the chance of somebody objecting to the principle of an aftermarket hammer if I felt the result was better. For me that would be preferable to sticking to the original lacquered hammer that produced what I felt was a lesser outcome just to be able to say, well I used the manufacturer’s parts. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable or really even a risky approach as long as you know what you’re doing. The approach, geometry and parts characteristics have changed so much over the years with Steinway that at some point you have to ask what is the real value or meaning of sticking to the current iteration. Ultimately, you take what you have and explore what is necessary to make it the best piano possible. It’s your call. You can’t make decisions by committee or out (though I have and even with a “consensus” nobody quite agrees on everything). Worse is to make them out of fear. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Brent Fischer Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:43 AM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid Hi David, The mistake I feel I see on this advice column comes from many that either haven't worked in higher ed or don't understand the hierarchy. Unless your credentials can withstand the scrutiny or NY endorses your expertise, flying out of the box in a college setting with a dean, chair, or a Steinway artist who is also a full professor can create untenable situations, for only you and no one else. When subjectiveness is the ultimate criteria the opinion of a professor is an uphill battle for us. I am not opposed to improving the quality of Steinways with after market parts that have proven results, like bass strings or WNG balance rail studs, but to alter tonal characteristics with anything but NY hammers doesn't make any sense, especially knowing if someone in the food chain can subjectively make your life miserable. All coming from a "Steinway processed technician in a thick box." Brent --- On Fri, 2/11/11, David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> wrote: From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid To: caut at ptg.org Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 5:58 PM Responding to two posts here: Fred: I agree it’s probably not defective hammers. I mean, they’re all defective in the sense that they all need 2,3,4 saturations of lacquer to sound right. But they’re all pretty much the same that way so I guess you call it a design rather than a defect :-). Sure, unless you spend the time to make sure that the regulation and fitting are getting you everything that the hammer has to offer you won’t know for sure. I’m taking him at his word on this one. The same prep work in fitting is required of any hammer and he has set up several others. But for some people, especially if they are used to working with a pressed hammer like the Abel mentioned, the sound of a heavily lacquered hammer might both be unfamiliar and undesirable. He wouldn't be the first to come to that conclusion. It's an artistic choice. A lacquered hammer does sound different than a hammer pressed to the desired density or beyond. It’s not wildly different, but it is different. A sampling of other hammers might be in order even though it’s difficult to extrapolate the entire piano from a few samples. The piano itself may have problems, who knows. Brent: I don’t agree with your concern. Weight of the Hamburg bass hammers can be dealt with easily by tapering prior to installation. I've heard several NY D's with Hamburg hammers that both sounded and played great--some in institutional settings. I think that getting another NY set if these can't be made to sound right to his ear is a mistake since I don't think there's likely going to be enough difference in a new set to yield a different result, at least not by virtue of it simply being a new set. If the treatment on this one has been in error such that they can't be salvaged, that may be a different story. I haven't heard anything yet to suggest that. Staying with NY hammers out of concern for your reputation is, I think, a mistake. You have to base your reputation on the quality of what you deliver. Sometimes you have to work outside the box to do that. Otherwise, you're just trying to CYA and that doesn't usually lead to quality outcomes, just poor quality excuses. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com On Fri 2/11/2011 12:51 PM Brent Fischer wrote: As far as Hamburg hammers, you will fight serious weight issues in the bass, although NY gets it really close now, Hamburg doesn't screw up geometry ever, as far as I know, and they're gonna be heavier. In addition, their bass strings have different specs than NY, the ribs are crowned, and their treble hammers have a serious lack of under-felt but seem to sound pretty good with that board. Solution, if it isn't structural just get another NY set and stay with NY so your reputation can never be second guessed by a Steinway processed artist. Brent On Feb 11, 2011, at 2:06 PM, David Love wrote: Agreed that he needs to have things square and mated enough to get a good sense of the tonal potential. But I wasn’t under the impression that was a question mark in this case. --- One person's certainty that things have been done well may not correspond to another's. I harp on these things because I am convinced (from checking many, many instruments, often rebuilt and prepped by quality shops from both coasts and in between, or new from dealers) that most people don't pay enough attention to them, and don't have an adequate technique to attend to them in the precise way they require. So they go about blaming other factors for the shortcomings of the instrument. And more often than not, if it is a customer's instrument and I have the opportunity to correct them, I find that most of those shortcomings go away, not just in my eyes and ears, but in those of the customer. (Often there is voicing as well, but it is after these things have been refined). Travel/square/mating may or may not be factors in this case. I wouldn't know without pulling the action and checking myself. So as a member of a long distance list, I point out things that nobody else is talking about. Of course, it _could_ be "defective hammers" (I doubt it), could be something to do with the structure of the instrument (quite possible), could be expectations that the particular instrument won't meet. All we can do at a distance is give our best guess. My point is that until you are absolutely positive you have laid this foundation well, all other speculation is premature. Regards, Fred Sturm fssturm at unm.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20110212/ef165973/attachment-0001.htm>
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