This makes me think that Fred's points are very germane to the issue and I
would pay special attention to his detailed suggestions. Without rehashing
the whole thing, why did you take off the hammers to begin with? With
lacquer there is some concern about applying early coats that are too light
such that it makes it difficult to get subsequent applications to penetrate
deep into the hammer where they are needed. But if the hammer doesn't get
to the appropriate level after all the checks and fittings have been done
it's usually that it needs more lacquer. The strength of the application is
important within a range. It might be worth noting that some early hammers
(possibly the ones you took off??) were hardened using keytop solutions for
overall hardening and I don't think that works as well as lacquer for
whatever reason.
David Love
www.davidlovepianos.com
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Paul T
Williams
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:15 AM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid
Good points all.
I'm going to look at the whole piano now. There may indeed be some other
real problems. I still think that I may have messed up the initial work on
these hammers. On Monday, I'll do some serious measurements: crown and
downbearing mostly, strike point next, then the shape of the hammer itself.
You all are great mentors for me, and I thank you all for chiming in! Keep
it coming!! :>)
what have y'all done to hammers when you think the initial "juicing" was
less than perfect? I'm hoping there is still hope for these hammers.
Remove and reinstall the original h/s/f's (that I smartly kept in a box);
and juice the heck out of them, and then "start over"? Is there a clean
slate?
I'll do some extensive measurements on the downbearing, soundboard crown,
etc on Monday rather than a tuning for "the Piano Class" in there later in
the day, and also sit in on the class tht afternoon, and hear what the
pianists say and profs say, too. I'm not getting much input from the profs,
so face to face will have to do.
Good idea?
On I go in the new world of learning!
Thanks again for all this wonderful help. We'll get there with this beast
somehow!
Paul
From:
"Ward & Probst, Inc" <wardprobst at wardprobst.com>
To:
<caut at ptg.org>
Date:
02/12/2011 12:06 PM
Subject:
Re: [CAUT] Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid
_____
Nice post Fred,
My experience is also that the basics are often neglected. One thing I don't
recall seeing is shaping the hammers. The S&S hammers I've seen lately
aren't as bloated as they used to be but still need shaping. Fred Drasche
and Chris Robinson both emphasized hammer shape when I was fortunate enough
to spend some time with them. I've never had any S&S hammers that were
impossible to work with, even when the quality was less than it is now.
Working in N. Texas I have seen soundboard issues that we should have a
climate control franchise.
A friend of mine who has a masters in psychology and works as an avionics
technician has a phrase for the mental traps we fall into. He calls it
"functional fixedness". There are at least two variations. You focus so
exclusively on the problem that you lose sight of the solution. You focus so
intent on one possible solution that you lose sight of other equally viable
possibilities. Been there, done that, got several T shirts.
The thing that has helped me the most is hands on, face to face mentoring at
PTG seminars. I've got factory training but I find that the variety of
viewpoints available at the PTG seminars is very beneficial for me. I like
to know several different ways to approach a problem. Like Fred Drasche,
told me one time sotto voce, "there's the factory way and there's the ways
you do it when the factory way don't work." (put that in a wonderful NY
accent)
Um, sorry for the ramble, hope someone gets something out of it,
DP
Dale Probst, RPT
Registered Piano Technician
Midwestern State University
-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [ <mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org>
mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred
Sturm
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 11:26 AM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid
On Feb 11, 2011, at 5:58 PM, David Love wrote:
> I'm taking him at his word on this one. The same prep work in
> fitting is required of any hammer and he has set up several others
I'll just note that I try always to write with the entire list in
mind, regardless of whether or not I am addressing an individual (if I
only want to talk to that individual, it's pretty easy to go private).
So a good deal of my emphasis is for the benefit of "everyone
else" (or at least everyone who needs to be given that emphasis). And
frankly, I don't think you can over-emphasize the basics, whether it
is clean and solid unisons (and an efficient technique to get them) in
tuning, or precise aftertouch in grand regulation, or travel/square
and mating (all three, always all three, no short cuts are possible!)
in action set up. And I'll say it again, because just fitting hammers
to strings is not the point. Unless they are thrown precisely toward
the string, the fitting process may improve things but certainly won't
optimize them. It requires precise travel and square as a foundation.
Otherwise your hammers are wobbling around, giving unpredictable blows
to the strings (as is seen in high speed videography). This is not
just speculation, it is borne out by considerable experience of
refining travel and square and hearing the results.
I know that I thought I was a pretty good tech 20 years ago,
10
years
ago . . . Thought I had those techniques down pretty well. It is a
constant process, refining and self-questioning and refining some
more. So maybe some of what I write is annoying to some, but at least
it is well-intentioned and based on my own experience. In this case,
my own experience is that pre-hung Steinway hammers need considerable
attention to travel and square, before you start thinking about
lacquer and needles.
Regards,
Fred Sturm
fssturm at unm.edu
<http://www.youtube.com/fredsturm> http://www.youtube.com/fredsturm
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