The Steinway D at the University of Nebraska: This is one of three D's at UNL. It was built in 1992; it was purchased by UNL in the fall of 1999 having been in Aspen that summer for the music festival. The rumor was that UNL "stole" the piano because it was a C&A instrument that somehow got diverted to Forche Music in Houston. Probably Steinway wanted to sell it and Forche got the piano. While in Houston Dean Shank (piano technician/pedagogy instructor at Rice) "found" the piano and called one of our profs here to tell him that this wonderful instrument was for sale. The prof flew down to Houston to take a listen. He loved it. Our other piano faculty guy followed and he loved the instrument. Money appeared from somewhere. The sale was made. I didn't see the instrument until it arrived on campus. (That was before I started working at the Aspen festival) The piano did have a lovely sound. But the hammers were pretty well shot. I told the piano faculty that we wouldn't get more than a couple years out of them, so as part of the sale, Forche agreed to provide a new set of hammers when I determined that it was necessary. I also discovered that the hammers were Hamburg hammers, although this was a NY D. I never determined whether the rumored story that we "stole" the piano from NY was true, although when the piano was inaugurated, the rumor got into the newspaper. Such a tale always adds to the perceived tone, I'm sure. But what actually happened between the pianos birth and it's arrival in Houston is still shrouded in mystery. I suppose I should have investigated its checkered past assuming that the piano had a checkered past sitting in the basement of Steinway Hall. I'm not sure of the year that I decided to replace the hammers, but it was probably around 2003/2004. I had to badger Forche for the hammers, but I finally got them. It was my understanding that at that time Renner-made, Hamburg hammers that came directly from the Hamburg factory were difficult to get--impossible through the Steinway NY parts department. I don't know whether this was true then. At one point I heard that the "Hamburg" hammers you got through NY weren't really the same as the "real" Hamburg hammers that Renner made for the Hamburg factory. (How do these rumors get started anyway???) At any rate, Forche supposedly got me the genuine article and they looked good, same color underfelt, nice shape, harder that NY hammers. If they weren't the genuine article, they were pretty good hammers and I went with them because I didn't want to alter the basic tone of that piano. The hammer replacement caused me much anxiety. I was planning on custom boring the hammers. I found that the plate was fairly radically canted. The bass end was almost 1/4" too high and I didn't have enough hammer molding to make up the difference. The killer octave strings were nearly perfect. Number 88 was going to have to be short. What to do. I almost rejected the set in order to get non- Steinway hammers with extra long moldings. When I checked the old set, I discovered that they were probably not custom bored, and were hung like any factory set, even if the bore lengths weren't even close in the bass and high treble. Again, what to do. My final decision? If the faculty loved the old hammers, then I'm just going to duplicate what was there and hope for the best. It was the right decision. The faculty loved the new hammers, and life went on. I'm not sure why Paul decided to go with the NY hammers. I thought I had told him the history of things. Probably a Hamburg D set would have worked better. Maybe that's why the piano had them when the piano came to Lincoln. That's the saga. Richard West, UNL Emeritus I done my time and done got out. On Feb 12, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Paul T Williams wrote: > Good suggestion, Brent. > > Actually, if I remember the story Richard West told me about this > piano, is that it was originally from Texas, but I might have this > just right. Richard, are you out there? > > I'll check those issue Monday morning. I would do it right now, but > "double reed" day is going on in there.... > > Of course, my can of worms will get much larger if this is a > problem as well! > > Thanks > Paul > > > > From: Brent Fischer <brent.fischer at yahoo.com> > To: caut at ptg.org > Date: 02/12/2011 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers > > > > > Hi, > > You should read Overs comments on plates on his website. Also, if > this was > built during the Wickham / Kelly transition you might have bass > spec issues as > well as v-bar problems but it could be more symptomatic of bridge > roll or > loss of crown. There isn't much wiggle room over the years for the > health > of a force-crowned board and I witnessed a few Steinways in Texas that > came out of the box with reversed crown, so why don't you measure > it as > well as the front to back bridge bearing so the discussion has a > baseline. > Brent > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Paul T Williams <pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu> > wrote: > > > Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers > To: caut at ptg.org > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 2:04 PM > > On my exit for today, Brent, > > This is a problem with this piano. > > It was supposidly a C&A piano from Texas (Ask Richard West on the > history of this piano). It was chosen by the piano faculty and > they loved it. It has a strange history on why its' here, btw. > > Richard told me the plate was a bit misconfigured and the plate in > the bass is a bit too high. This is indeed what I found when > regulating the action. I have to be careful when putting the > action in and out to watch for the bass hammers as they're a bit > too high. > > New Question: How much affect is this on voicing and tone? Or just > action problems, that I've overcome???? > > More best. > > Now I'm getting really thirsty for that pint!! > > Paul > > > > From: Brent Fischer <brent.fischer at yahoo.com> > To: caut at ptg.org > Date: 02/11/2011 02:56 PM > Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers > > > > > > Hi Kevin, > > It's impossible to extrapolate the root cause of Mr. William's > hammer > problem without a structural analysis. Must remember that these > forced-crowned boards don't last more than fifteen years for C at A > applications. Ten millimeters of crown out of the piano, five at > clamping > pressure, and 2.5 strung up. I'd wonder if it was crowned in July > or December? > The factory isn't exactly tight and it matters. What about the > plate? Read what > Overs has to say about sand cast specifications. As far as Hamburg > hammers, you will fight serious weight issues in the bass, although NY > gets it really close now, Hamburg doesn't screw up geometry ever, > as far > as I know, and they're gonna be heavier. In addition, their bass > strings > have different specs than NY, the ribs are crowned, and their > treble hammers > have a serious lack of under-felt but seem to sound pretty good > with that board. > Solution, if it isn't structural just get another NY set and stay > with NY > so your reputation can never be second guessed by a Steinway > processed artist. > > Brent > > --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Fortenberry, Kevin <kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu> > wrote: > > From: Fortenberry, Kevin <kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu> > Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers > To: "caut at ptg.org" <caut at ptg.org> > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 11:04 AM > > Paul, not only do I feel your pain, but the timing of this > discussion is rather good. I am faced with this very decision on > several pianos. I am, like you, interested in experimenting with > the NY hammers, but we are facing budget cuts/time deadlines, etc. > I really wish it were possible to just order the Hamburg hammers. I > have heard from several sources that they are fabulous! I spoke > with another technician friend at a rather large University and he > says that it IS possible to order them, but even he admitted it is > hard to do. (Anyone have any idea on this? Kent?) He says they are > a denser felt than the Renner Blues, but do behave and voice very > similarly to the blues. Almost every piano here at Texas Tech > (except the few newer pianos we have) has Renner Blues (all 3 of > our D-s included) which are great, but of course are fairly high > maintenance and just do not seem to last all that long. I love the > idea of the Hamburgs since they are "Steinway Hammers" which > satisfies those who want to stick with Steinway parts, and those of > us with limited time, and very limited $$$ don't have to experiment > endless hours with lacquer/lacquer thinner fumes, paint masks that > do not allow lacquer fumes to be breathed right into the lungs, > etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, I love our Steinways! I am gun-ho > about Steinways--probably to a fault, but someone please tell why > we cannot just pick up the phone and order Hamberg hammers! In the > meantime, I will see what you discover with these hammers, try some > experimenting (thanks Fred for all the help with this!), and maybe > try those Abel Naturals everyone keeps raving when possible. I > have also heard the new Steinway shaped hammers from Renner are > challenging to voice--but I have only talked to one rebuilder who > had to file deeply to get any real tone. This could be wrong--are > these anything like the Hamgergs, also made my Renner?? > > Best to all, Kevin Fortenberry > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of caut-request at ptg.org > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:51 AM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 28, Issue 30 > > Send CAUT mailing list submissions to > caut at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > caut-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > caut-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid (Fred Sturm) > 2. Re: Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid (David Love) > > > This set is lackluster from the bottom to the top. Perhaps they > sent me a > non-prelacquered set. I kept the old hammers and shanks, so I > might switch > them out, bring the new set to the shop and soak the crap out them > with a > 4:1 mix. I guess I have nothing to lose and education to gain from > this. > > This is my first set of NY Hammers. I've been using Wallys > Naturals for > years. Maybe I shouldn't have messed around in a new world. I > would have > put on another set of Abels, but the piano dept head insisted on > Steinway > hammers as he's a "Steinway Concert Artist". I perhaps shouldn't > have said > anything, eh? and just used what I know how to use. > > What's to expect from Hamburg hammers? Never used those either. > > Keep em coming. Thanks guys! > > Paul > > > ************************************ > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20110212/1d0e8969/attachment-0001.htm>
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