Hi, Richard, AH...da haben wir den Dreck...you said the magic words...Dean Shank/Forshey Piano Company...alles kommt klar. Putting Hamburg hammers on troublesome NY pianos has been around for a very long time...they often work exceptionally well; especially if the instrument has trouble developing tone. It used to be that they had to be ordered by S/N, and were supposedly otherwise unavailable...so, the story hangs together from that standpoint. I'm not at all surprised that it took a while to get them. Best. Horace At 01:37 PM 2/12/2011, you wrote: >The Steinway D at the University of Nebraska: This is one of three >D's at UNL. It was built in 1992; it was purchased by UNL in the >fall of 1999 having been in Aspen that summer for the music >festival. The rumor was that UNL "stole" the piano because it was a >C&A instrument that somehow got diverted to Forche Music in >Houston. Probably Steinway wanted to sell it and Forche got the >piano. While in Houston Dean Shank (piano technician/pedagogy >instructor at Rice) "found" the piano and called one of our profs >here to tell him that this wonderful instrument was for sale. The >prof flew down to Houston to take a listen. He loved it. Our other >piano faculty guy followed and he loved the instrument. Money >appeared from somewhere. The sale was made. I didn't see the >instrument until it arrived on campus. (That was before I started >working at the Aspen festival) The piano did have a lovely >sound. But the hammers were pretty well shot. I told the piano >faculty that we wouldn't get more than a couple years out of them, >so as part of the sale, Forche agreed to provide a new set of >hammers when I determined that it was necessary. > >I also discovered that the hammers were Hamburg hammers, although >this was a NY D. I never determined whether the rumored story that >we "stole" the piano from NY was true, although when the piano was >inaugurated, the rumor got into the newspaper. Such a tale always >adds to the perceived tone, I'm sure. But what actually happened >between the pianos birth and it's arrival in Houston is still >shrouded in mystery. I suppose I should have investigated its >checkered past assuming that the piano had a checkered past sitting >in the basement of Steinway Hall. > >I'm not sure of the year that I decided to replace the hammers, but >it was probably around 2003/2004. I had to badger Forche for the >hammers, but I finally got them. It was my understanding that at >that time Renner-made, Hamburg hammers that came directly from the >Hamburg factory were difficult to get--impossible through the >Steinway NY parts department. I don't know whether this was true >then. At one point I heard that the "Hamburg" hammers you got >through NY weren't really the same as the "real" Hamburg hammers >that Renner made for the Hamburg factory. (How do these rumors get >started anyway???) At any rate, Forche supposedly got me the >genuine article and they looked good, same color underfelt, nice >shape, harder that NY hammers. If they weren't the genuine article, >they were pretty good hammers and I went with them because I didn't >want to alter the basic tone of that piano. > >The hammer replacement caused me much anxiety. I was planning on >custom boring the hammers. I found that the plate was fairly >radically canted. The bass end was almost 1/4" too high and I >didn't have enough hammer molding to make up the difference. The >killer octave strings were nearly perfect. Number 88 was going to >have to be short. What to do. I almost rejected the set in order >to get non-Steinway hammers with extra long moldings. When I >checked the old set, I discovered that they were probably not custom >bored, and were hung like any factory set, even if the bore lengths >weren't even close in the bass and high treble. Again, what to >do. My final decision? If the faculty loved the old hammers, then >I'm just going to duplicate what was there and hope for the >best. It was the right decision. The faculty loved the new >hammers, and life went on. > >I'm not sure why Paul decided to go with the NY hammers. I thought >I had told him the history of things. Probably a Hamburg D set >would have worked better. Maybe that's why the piano had them when >the piano came to Lincoln. That's the saga. > >Richard West, UNL Emeritus > >I done my time and done got out. > > > > > >On Feb 12, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Paul T Williams wrote: > >>Good suggestion, Brent. >> >>Actually, if I remember the story Richard West told me about this >>piano, is that it was originally from Texas, but I might have this >>just right. Richard, are you out there? >> >>I'll check those issue Monday morning. I would do it right now, but >>"double reed" day is going on in there.... >> >>Of course, my can of worms will get much larger if this is a >>problem as well! >> >>Thanks >>Paul >> >> >> >>From: Brent Fischer >><<mailto:brent.fischer at yahoo.com>brent.fischer at yahoo.com> >>To: <mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org >>Date: 02/12/2011 10:13 AM >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers >> >> >> >> >> >>Hi, >> >> You should read Overs comments on plates on his website. Also, >> if this was >>built during the Wickham / Kelly transition you might have bass >>spec issues as >>well as v-bar problems but it could be more symptomatic of bridge roll or >>loss of crown. There isn't much wiggle room over the years for the health >>of a force-crowned board and I witnessed a few Steinways in Texas that >>came out of the box with reversed crown, so why don't you measure it as >>well as the front to back bridge bearing so the discussion has a baseline. >>Brent >> >>--- On Fri, 2/11/11, Paul T Williams >><<mailto:pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu>pwilliams4 at unlnotes.unl.edu> wrote: >> >> >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers >>To: <mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org >>Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 2:04 PM >> >>On my exit for today, Brent, >> >>This is a problem with this piano. >> >>It was supposidly a C&A piano from Texas (Ask Richard West on the >>history of this piano). It was chosen by the piano faculty and >>they loved it. It has a strange history on why its' here, btw. >> >>Richard told me the plate was a bit misconfigured and the plate in >>the bass is a bit too high. This is indeed what I found when >>regulating the action. I have to be careful when putting the >>action in and out to watch for the bass hammers as they're a bit too high. >> >>New Question: How much affect is this on voicing and tone? Or just >>action problems, that I've overcome???? >> >>More best. >> >>Now I'm getting really thirsty for that pint!! >> >>Paul >> >> >> >>From: Brent Fischer >><<mailto:brent.fischer at yahoo.com>brent.fischer at yahoo.com> >>To: <mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org >>Date: 02/11/2011 02:56 PM >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Hi Kevin, >> >> It's impossible to extrapolate the root cause of Mr. William's hammer >>problem without a structural analysis. Must remember that these >>forced-crowned boards don't last more than fifteen years for C at A >>applications. Ten millimeters of crown out of the piano, five at clamping >>pressure, and 2.5 strung up. I'd wonder if it was crowned in July >>or December? >>The factory isn't exactly tight and it matters. What about the >>plate? Read what >>Overs has to say about sand cast specifications. As far as Hamburg >>hammers, you will fight serious weight issues in the bass, although NY >>gets it really close now, Hamburg doesn't screw up geometry ever, as far >>as I know, and they're gonna be heavier. In addition, their bass strings >>have different specs than NY, the ribs are crowned, and their treble hammers >>have a serious lack of under-felt but seem to sound pretty good >>with that board. >>Solution, if it isn't structural just get another NY set and stay with NY >>so your reputation can never be second guessed by a Steinway >>processed artist. >> >>Brent >> >>--- On Fri, 2/11/11, Fortenberry, Kevin >><<mailto:kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu>kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu> wrote: >> >>From: Fortenberry, Kevin >><<mailto:kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu>kevin.fortenberry at ttu.edu> >>Subject: Re: [CAUT] NY hammers/ Hamberg hammers >>To: "<mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org" <<mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org> >>Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 11:04 AM >> >>Paul, not only do I feel your pain, but the timing of this >>discussion is rather good. I am faced with this very decision on >>several pianos. I am, like you, interested in experimenting with >>the NY hammers, but we are facing budget cuts/time deadlines, etc. >>I really wish it were possible to just order the Hamburg hammers. I >>have heard from several sources that they are fabulous! I spoke >>with another technician friend at a rather large University and he >>says that it IS possible to order them, but even he admitted it is >>hard to do. (Anyone have any idea on this? Kent?) He says they are >>a denser felt than the Renner Blues, but do behave and voice very >>similarly to the blues. Almost every piano here at Texas Tech >>(except the few newer pianos we have) has Renner Blues (all 3 of >>our D-s included) which are great, but of course are fairly high >>maintenance and just do not seem to last all that long. I love the >>idea of the Hamburgs since they are "Steinway Hammers" which >>satisfies those who want to stick with Steinway parts, and those of >>us with limited time, and very limited $$$ don't have to experiment >>endless hours with lacquer/lacquer thinner fumes, paint masks that >>do not allow lacquer fumes to be breathed right into the lungs, >>etc. etc. Don't get me wrong, I love our Steinways! I am gun-ho >>about Steinways--probably to a fault, but someone please tell why >>we cannot just pick up the phone and order Hamberg hammers! In the >>meantime, I will see what you discover with these hammers, try some >>experimenting (thanks Fred for all the help with this!), and maybe >>try those Abel Naturals everyone keeps raving when possible. I >>have also heard the new Steinway shaped hammers from Renner are >>challenging to voice--but I have only talked to one rebuilder who >>had to file deeply to get any real tone. This could be wrong--are >>these anything like the Hamgergs, also made my Renner?? >> >>Best to all, Kevin Fortenberry >> >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: <mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org>caut-bounces at ptg.org >>[mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >><mailto:caut-request at ptg.org>caut-request at ptg.org >>Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 9:51 AM >>To: <mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org >>Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 28, Issue 30 >> >>Send CAUT mailing list submissions to >> <mailto:caut at ptg.org>caut at ptg.org >> >>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> <http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut>http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut >>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> <mailto:caut-request at ptg.org>caut-request at ptg.org >> >>You can reach the person managing the list at >> <mailto:caut-owner at ptg.org>caut-owner at ptg.org >> >>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." >> >> >>Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid (Fred Sturm) >> 2. Re: Bum set of NY hammers, I'm afraid (David Love) >> >> >>This set is lackluster from the bottom to the top. Perhaps they sent me a >>non-prelacquered set. I kept the old hammers and shanks, so I might switch >>them out, bring the new set to the shop and soak the crap out them with a >>4:1 mix. I guess I have nothing to lose and education to gain from this. >> >>This is my first set of NY Hammers. I've been using Wallys Naturals for >>years. Maybe I shouldn't have messed around in a new world. I would have >>put on another set of Abels, but the piano dept head insisted on Steinway >>hammers as he's a "Steinway Concert Artist". I perhaps shouldn't have said >>anything, eh? and just used what I know how to use. >> >>What's to expect from Hamburg hammers? Never used those either. >> >>Keep em coming. Thanks guys! >> >>Paul >> >> >>************************************ >> >> >> >> >> >>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC