David, Sorry. I guess I was trying to stir the pot a bit. <G> We’ve been here many times before… I’ve been in the selection room in NY and the tone was all over the place with Bs but not quite as much with Ds, in my opinion. What I was hinting at is our worn out question; don’t Ds in concert halls, as well as the Steinway C&A Ds have a certain characteristic tone that is “Steinway”? I agree with what you said below that we have the ability to reproduce it (last sentence below) but nearly all the rebuilds I’ve heard are not like Steinway. Nor do they try to be. That’s why (I think) Brent made his statements. Not in disrespect to anyone, but who might better duplicate the “Steinway sound” if there is such an animal, than Steinway? Now I’ll bow out and let all the retorts fly. <G> Best, Jim p.s. I’ve never sent a piano to Steinway for rebuilding, although I quite like them. From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 3:50 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway rebuilds Yipes, I think I know how you meant that but I wouldn’t say that’s quite a fair characterization. Not even sure where to begin but this gets into dangerous territory about trying to characterize all Steinways, comment on what the Steinway sound is or on alternative rebuilding procedures in one breath. Steinway failures are the favorite whipping boy lately but not all Steinways sound bad or have failed killer octave problems (we should also be careful to distinguish between Steinway executions of 1920 and 2000—there are differences). Not all RC&S boards have perfect treble sections either. The open characteristics that can be present in a compression crowned board with light rib scales can by squelched by an RC&S board that puts too much emphasis on not being overdriven or fails to account for the stiffening characteristics that the panel contributes in spite of the calculations which tend to ignore it. Grain angles, rib feathering procedures and patterns, bass and treble cut off bars all contribute to the entire tonal envelope but the devil is in the details and there are a wide range of choices and outcomes possible in RC&S boards some favorable some not. Some of the boards I’ve heard that I liked the least were ones that were overbuilt to insure adequate rib support (and I’m not talking about Dale’s projects). These pianos, in fact, I liked less than some cc boards with slightly compromised killer octaves. Identifying specific tonal goals and how to get there is very tricky business. But I think it has less to do with cc versus RC&S and more to do with understanding the strengths and limitations of each and how the specific design features and choices impacts the tone generally. Sometimes what seems like a good idea on paper doesn’t really translate to a musical outcome, one that makes the piano best suited for what it’s really designed to do which is interpret music. Sometimes a board that can be overdriven is desirable or at least should be achievable if the artist wants it, for example. Having explored a number of design “plans” in different iterations from full blown all the bells and whistles to more modest approaches, I can say that more and more I find myself treading more cautiously with certain design features not because they don’t make sense but because the way in which they can alter certain musical aspects of the piano into which they are incorporated. But that doesn’t mean that new designs and approaches can’t produce musical outcomes indistinguishable from more traditional ones or that traditional ones necessarily guarantee any particular result either. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Jim Busby Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:01 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway rebuilds Dale, Do you think Brent would be correct if he was to say “send it to Steinway if you want it to sound like a NY Steinway.” Your pianos certainly don’t sound like a NY Steinway (thank goodness!) Jim From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Dale Erwin Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:40 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway rebuilds Hi Brent You probably won't take this well but this kind of pedantic attitude deserves a response. From my perspective this is like drinking the cool-aid willingly. It also says a lot about the respect you have or don't have for the nations rebuilders and their work. It says that you believe that only Steinway has the magic wood or some such nonsense. The market cornered on varnish..... Come on...Really? Frankly. Its insulting Dale S. Erwin www.Erwinspiano.com Custom restoration Ronsen Piano hammers Join the Weickert felt Revolution 209-577-8397 209-985-0990 -----Original Message----- From: Brent Fischer <brent.fischer at yahoo.com> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 12:21 pm Subject: Re: [CAUT] Steinway rebuilds Truth sir, you are spot on, like white on rice. Send it to the Steinway restoration center for the real driving tonal power you have come to expect from them. Of course, you are aware that you don't want them to drill or string it for you, but you will get a performance quality sound that you want and furthermore they still varnish the boards instead of coatings that let as much as 38% more moisture penetrate the cell structure. And if you want to get the plate processed correctly ship it to Austrailia and have Overs do his termination hardening repairs. Steinway won't mind, just let them pick the plate color. Brent --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Mckeever, James I <mckeever at uwp.edu<mailto:mckeever at uwp.edu>> wrote: From: Mckeever, James I <mckeever at uwp.edu<mailto:mckeever at uwp.edu>> Subject: [CAUT] Steinway rebuilds To: "caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>" <caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org>> Date: Monday, February 14, 2011, 9:02 AM Thanks to everyone for the discussion of laminated soundboards, especially Del Fandrich. Now a question about Steinway soundboards. A rebuilder once told me he prefers not to replace Steinway soundboards, because a replacement never quite gives you the “Steinway sound.” Any truth to it? Thanks, Jim McKeever -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20110214/3214d881/attachment-0001.htm>
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