Ok In short. I'll stick to what Joe said. HE had no knowledge about hardeners being used prior to his coming but he also said he did not get the impression that any thing had changed that much either. SO extrapolate or not The felt they were using in 1947 when he joined Steinway as I stated earlier was really good. That said he stated that they usually chose to us a dilute solution of lacquer and some form of thinner in only two places. The first was around the bass tenor break with the low tenor hammers receiving some hardener. The other was the top octave area. He and Ray both confirm that the Standard felt was either bought out or went out of biz sometime in the 60s. I'll double check on that. Then Steinway started with another felt company which I don't recall for sure if that was American. If one is exposed to enough original sets of pre -war Steinway hammers and tried to get needles into the suckers then the odds are greater that you can't because there too D_ _ _ hard due to lacquer/shellac/or magic crystals. When that solution was applied of course is anybodys guess but it was obviously done for a reason. SO lets extrapolate! ok?Somebody wanted a change in tone. I think it is the well rounded technician who explores all voicing techniques at his or her disposal and just because we don't happen to like the way some of accomplished doesn't mean that don't need to deal with the scenarios as they come our way. I am a proponent of modest voicing procedures and profess to be in this regard a minimalist in terms of needling or stiffening of hammers. I don't need to justify either and mass amounts of either is a hard sell with me. It is my reality in the world of tone regulating. The other side of this discussion involves the cultural tonal shift. It takes time to develop any warm/less hot pressed hammer and play in time requires understanding and patience that the tone will bloom with playing. By in large this component of tone development (I believe) used to be a normal part of the break in mentality toward a new piano. Now the instant on generation has its way and so hammers and voicing techniques have changed to give....Instant gratification. What a wonderful concept. SO there are choices to be made build a different system and use softer hammers and or use a hammer that matches the system life gives you. Dale S. Erwin www.Erwinspiano.com -----Original Message----- From: Dale Erwin <erwinspiano at aol.com> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Sat, Feb 19, 2011 8:42 am Subject: Re: [CAUT] Lacquered hammers Fascinating discussion. Now were gettin somewhere....fast I think that the hammers and the felt were always treated in some cases. I don't think projection and power were less a need and desire by concert artist playing in large orchestras. 90% of the time I find the old original Steinway hammers made with Weickert felt to have been treated somewhere along the line. Only occasionally do I find them that are not treated and when I do its a real interesting experience. More later lso ...I had the privileged of speaking with Joe Biscelli. (sp?) now 88 years young and he started in the factory right after the war. And worked in many areas for 50 years or something ridiculous,.... & this is what he had to say. They cold pressed all there hammers in a press almost exactly like Rays at Ronsen There were no Weickert felt sheets left over and they used a really good felt from Standard felt company made in Calif. Ray confirms this that the felt was really high quality stuff and Pfreimer hammer and the His Dads new upstart company ...Ronsen...also used the felt from 1958 on........ooops gotta go. My cousins and daughter are here. More later Dale S. Erwin www.Erwinspiano.com Custom restoration Ronsen Piano hammers Join the Weickert felt Revolution 209-577-8397 209-985-0990 -----Original Message----- From: Douglas E. Wood <dew2 at u.washington.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Fri, Feb 18, 2011 7:48 pm Subject: Re: [CAUT] Lacquered hammers Excellent. Somehow I'd like to acquire a few such hammers and find a way to have them assayed. Of course back then it was almost surely varnish or shellac. This, too, has been alluded to often: the hardener was what was already in the factory for other purposes. Do you have any? If so, I'll find a chemist. Doug On Thu, 17 Feb 2011, David Love wrote: > I've worked on several prewar (1920's) D's with original parts (hammers > anyway) that didn't have lacquer. Very lightweight hammer that you could > practically penetrate with a needle held in your fingers. In fact, I don't > think nitrocellulose lacquers were even invented until about 1920 or 1921? I > think it was awhile before they started using the stuff on hammers, though I > don't know for certain when that started. I've heard various stories and > most of them suggest it was certainly post WWII, perhaps much later. > > David Love > www.davidlovepianos.com > > > I have asked before, and will ask again, can anyone come up with a > SINGLE factory-installed Steinway D hammer that is lacquer-free? From > any era? This request is restricted to the Model D NY hammer from the > factory or the Basement. I'd really appreciate ONE piece of hard > evidence on this one. Anyone? I'll reiterate that I've been told by a > lot of Steinway people from at least 3 (4?) generations that ALL the > D's need at least any lacquer (or it's substitute) in ALL the hammers > to develop tone satisfactorily. A necessary element of tone development. > > And we all know which pianos the artists tend to select, for whatever > reasons... > > Doug > > > ********************************* > Doug Wood > Piano Technician > School of Music > University of Washington > dew2 at uw.edu > > doug at dougwoodpiano.com > (206) 935-5797 > ********************************* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20110219/79620c91/attachment-0001.htm>
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